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Dumb but honest ? about performance enhancing drugs. (Read 738 times)

     

    Just checked, it still is which was news to me. I don't really follow NCAA sports though.

     

    The level though is approximately equivalent to taking 500 mg within an hour prior to testing.

     

    Thats 10 mountain dews.  (or 5 standard strength caffeine pills).

     

    If anybody wants to take that much caffeine before competing, let 'em. They'll be too screwed up to finish, never mind winning.

       

      If anybody wants to take that much caffeine before competing, let 'em. They'll be too screwed up to finish, never mind winning.

       

      The drug rules are not only to prevent unfair advantage, but to keep dummies from hurting themselves.

      Well at least someone here is making relevance to the subject.


      Feeling the growl again

         

        EPO, well rbcs have a lifecycle of 100-120 ish days, but the body constantly fights to get the cell count back to the baseline. Its main use for most of Lance's career was for prepping blood bags and use the sudden surge of a re-infusion when it really mattered.

         

         

        How is EPO used to prep blood bags?  The early stages of hematopoeisis occur in the bone marrow and I don't see any further differentiation of reticulocytes occurring in refrigerated blood bags.

         

        Unless you referring to the main way of increasing RBC being through re-infusion vs EPO...

        "If you want to be a bad a$s, then do what a bad a$s does.  There's your pep talk for today.  Go Run." -- Slo_Hand

         


        Feeling the growl again

           

          If anybody wants to take that much caffeine before competing, let 'em. They'll be too screwed up to finish, never mind winning.

           

          In HS we had a very good runner pop a couple No-Doz because he had heard that caffeine enhanced performance.  He was a wreck and ran 7th on a team where he normally was 2nd (5K).

           

          Seems to be more of a sprinter thing.

          "If you want to be a bad a$s, then do what a bad a$s does.  There's your pep talk for today.  Go Run." -- Slo_Hand

           

            Its a good question, and the answer is more or less 'it depends'.

             

            Steroids, used for bulking, those will diminish but not go away as long as keep up a level of hard work.

            Steroids used as recovery aids, the increased base will allow you to push for quite a while after the drugs are flushed from your system

             

            EPO, well rbcs have a lifecycle of 100-120 ish days, but the body constantly fights to get the cell count back to the baseline. Its main use for most of Lance's career was for prepping blood bags and use the sudden surge of a re-infusion when it really mattered.

             

            There are long term consequences. I few months ago I was reading a ghost written article by a former cyclist. He basically has to take EPO now for the rest of his life, as the constant usage and high levels of usage atrophied his bodies ability to make its own. He may be able to be weaned off it over the course of a few years, but the docs are not hopeful.

             

            So yeah changes can be permanent, and not changes for the better.

             

            Yikes


            Labrat

               

              How is EPO used to prep blood bags?  The early stages of hematopoeisis occur in the bone marrow and I don't see any further differentiation of reticulocytes occurring in refrigerated blood bags.

               

              Unless you referring to the main way of increasing RBC being through re-infusion vs EPO...

               

              I was a little unclear there, you boost rbc production with EPO, mainly to quickly replace the rbcs drawn out, but also to affect the ret% measurement.

               

              Timing, volumes drawn and infused is everything, especially in those sports (cycling and now swimming) with the biopassport looking at ret% and offscore.

               

              The last in detail look at a suspected doping regime I saw, had multiple EPO micro doses, and included withdrawals and infusions on the same day (so as not to have the bagged blood age too much) and it requires a high level of knowledge and a little skill to carry it out.

               

              EPO on its own was useful a complete game changer but is trivial to detect at the levels needed to do that. (the 50% Hct days)

              Microdosing is all about the bagged blood infusions and masking what you are doing.

               

              Doing it at altitude helps (The EPO test is a ratio measurement and altitude skews this in the dopers favor).

              5K  23:21*  (Vdot 41.53)   10/13/12

              10K  46:35  (Vdot 43.47)  10/4/14

              HM 1:42:41 (Vdot 43.72) 10/25/14

              FM 4:24:33 (Vdot 33.59) 11/8/14

              *Gun time, all others are chip time

              Chantilly75


              It's always something...

                EPO is given to kidney dialysis patients.  They usually have to take it once a week, because it wears off.

                Don't know if the athletes take a bigger dose, though.

                 "I got nothing to do and all day to do it"  Styx

                 

                 

                 


                Feeling the growl again

                   

                  I was a little unclear there, you boost rbc production with EPO, mainly to quickly replace the rbcs drawn out, but also to affect the ret% measurement.

                   

                   

                  Ah, that makes sense now.  Thanks.  Did you see the analysis of LA's blood numbers done by Science of Sport, I think it was?  I think the link is somewhere back in this thread....very good read.

                   

                  I was involved in the B sample testing of an athlete for EPO, but it was a number of years ago when the use of the drug was less sophisticated.

                  "If you want to be a bad a$s, then do what a bad a$s does.  There's your pep talk for today.  Go Run." -- Slo_Hand

                   


                  Feeling the growl again

                    EPO is given to kidney dialysis patients.  They usually have to take it once a week, because it wears off.

                    Don't know if the athletes take a bigger dose, though.

                     

                    Before they had testing, the deaths of several cyclists were attributed to wreckless EPO use...yes, very high doses.  The half-life in the bloodstream is very short, so the testing window is as well.

                    "If you want to be a bad a$s, then do what a bad a$s does.  There's your pep talk for today.  Go Run." -- Slo_Hand

                     


                    Queen of 3rd Place

                       

                      Ah, that makes sense now.  Thanks.  Did you see the analysis of LA's blood numbers done by Science of Sport, I think it was?  I think the link is somewhere back in this thread....very good read.

                       

                       

                      There's a very concise discussion of reticulocyte counts and blood plasma volume changes in LA here:

                      http://velonews.competitor.com/2012/10/news/gore-armstrongs-blood-showed-clear-signs-of-manipulation-in-2009_256658

                      Ex runner

                      Runslowalksalot


                        So did Lance use these drugs before he got cancer?  Was their use a contributing factor?   It's well known that Long term steroid use has, understate it, significant long-term side effects.  Pro football players Lyle Alsedo got brain cancer, and Brian Bozworth has crippling joint deterioration, and not just his knees.    Will anyone cry for Lance if he gets cancer again?   I say this with a heavy heart, as Lance was a hero for me.   What do you do,say, feel when your hero lets you down in the worst way?

                        A friend of mine was a wrestler in high school and lifted weights to help.   He said he would swear by the legal suppliment creatine, which is cycled in a similar manner to steroids, and that he alwys felt like crap when in an "off" cycle.   He was pretty taken aback when I informed him that one's body needs creatine, so it makes it.  Consuming more that one's body needs causes the body to stop making it.  So in an "on" cycle, a person pays for creatine that the body would otherwise make naturally.   Then at the beginning of an "off" cycle, the body isn't making any, so one feels like crap.

                        On a side note, he's 5'9" with a big head and size 13 feet.    Apparantly a doctor told him he should be about 6'2".   All of the "sucking weight" he did while still growing stunted his growth permanatly.


                        Labrat

                          So did Lance use these drugs before he got cancer?  Was their use a contributing factor?

                           

                          That's the million dollar question, I hope it is addressed.

                          5K  23:21*  (Vdot 41.53)   10/13/12

                          10K  46:35  (Vdot 43.47)  10/4/14

                          HM 1:42:41 (Vdot 43.72) 10/25/14

                          FM 4:24:33 (Vdot 33.59) 11/8/14

                          *Gun time, all others are chip time

                            Yes. According to several witnesses who were present at the University of Indiana Med Ctr when Lance was first diagnosed, he admitted to his doctor that he had used a whole litany of PEDs prior to his cancer. This came out in the depositions when during a lawsuit by one of his sponsors years ago.

                            Runners run.

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