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Moderate runs, good, bad, or it all depends? (Read 158 times)

npaden


    Okay, I've been progressing very well with the hard, easy, easy type plans over the last 18 months or so.  Even spent a few months in there with nothing but easy.  Very happy with my progress so far.  So of course I'm going to ask questions about changing it.  LOL.

     

    I've had several runs lately where I've had a set amount of time to run, but wanted to get in as many miles as possible so I've done several runs recently at what I would consider a moderate pace.  I haven't been wearing my HRM much lately, but I'm sure I'm over 70% of my max HR on these runs.  My half marathon race pace is 7:54 (my last race a little over a week ago on a fairly difficult course), and I've run a few times recently around an 8:30 to 8:45 pace.  My easy pace is usually closer to 9:30 to 9:45.

     

    I'm not trying to mess up a good thing, but it's been nice to knock out some miles a little faster and the moderate paced runs are pretty enjoyable at least as a change up from my normal hard, easy, easy type routine.

     

    So how bad is it to throw moderate paced running into the mix?  Let's say I do it one or two days a week tops and there is still always a rest day or an easy day between any moderate paced run and a hard workout.

     

    Is a moderate 11.25 mile run in 1:40 better or worse for me than an easy 10 mile run in 1:40?

     

    Just thinking through the next few months on the calendar without any real training plan in place and trying to keep my volume at a decent level with some other things competing for my time.  Also kind of enjoying the occasional moderate paced run vs. always running either hard or easy.

     

    Any thoughts or even better yet, any facts or research on the subject?

     

    Thanks, Nathan

    Age: 50 Weight: 224 Height: 6'3" (Goal weight 195)

    Current PR's:  Mara 3:14:36* (2017); HM 1:36:13 (2017); 10K 43:59 (2014); 5K 21:12 (2016)

      Go for it - in most cases. Lydiard's base training included anything predominantly aerobic - up to close to LT (whereever that is). If you can talk in at least short sentences, I'd say it's ok (not that my opinion matters).

       

      It's still good to maintain a range of durations and intensities. Each has their place in training.

      "So many people get stuck in the routine of life that their dreams waste away. This is about living the dream." - Cave Dog
      runbum


        I think it depends on whether you can handle the volume and intensity you are trying to maintain in your schedule.

         

        I like to run at the faster end of easy pace, and even a bit beyond that into moderate and steady-state runs at times. It is very rare for me to run slower than a 9 m/m pace. Often, I log "easy" runs between 8:00-8:15 pace, even though I am not quite as fast as you, based on your 10k pr.

         

        The truth is, I feel comfortable running around 50-60 mpw, and am not interested in building beyond that volume at this time. So I tend to focus on going faster at my current volume.

          Go for it - in most cases. Lydiard's base training included anything predominantly aerobic - up to close to LT (whereever that is). If you can talk in at least short sentences, I'd say it's ok (not that my opinion matters).

           

          It's still good to maintain a range of durations and intensities. Each has their place in training.

           

          I agree with this. I think the range of aerobic paces is pretty big, and as long as your occasional faster easy run doesn't hamper your recovery, why not? Our HM times are similar; sometimes my legs like to pop out a blazing fast (Roll eyes) sub-9-minute-mile or even down into the low 8's easy run too, for whatever reason. I just go with it.

           

          Over time, your easy pace will get faster anyway. Maybe that's what's happening to you.

            I don't know about facts or research but the good old fashioned "to the barn" run is a staple for most of the good runners I know.

            Runners run


            Feeling the growl again

               

               

              It's still good to maintain a range of durations and intensities. Each has their place in training.

               

              This.  You're good to go as long as you don't get carried away with it.

              "If you want to be a bad a$s, then do what a bad a$s does.  There's your pep talk for today.  Go Run." -- Slo_Hand

               

              I am spaniel - Crusher of Treadmills

               

                Plugging your HM time into the McMillan calculator gives a range for your easy pace of 8:15 to 9:18. I am a little slower than you are, and just under 9 minute pace is still in my easy range if my legs are feeling good. So I think you're fine running those paces. I have a big range for "easy" depending on how I feel, and I think that is pretty normal. As long as you don't run so hard on the easy days that it leaves you too tired to hit the paces in your next key workout. But since you have no real training plan at present, it shouldn't be a problem.

                PRs: 5K: 21:25, 10K: 44:05, HM: 1:38:23* (downhill), M: 3:32:09


                Why is it sideways?

                  I don't think there is much physiological research on the moderate run, which is in part why it gets ignored in favor of the hard/easy principle.

                   

                  I have found that for me regular moderate running on the "fast end" of easy is a really great way to get fit, especially early season.

                   

                  Moderate runs are really better thought of as progression runs, as they ought to be spontaneous rather than planned. I think there are huge mental benefits to spending an off season learning to run fast when you feel good. It's a great way to get in touch with your body and to learn to read its signals. How hard can you push without losing that relaxed and flowing feeling?

                   

                  Working with this will help you read your body better during racing and help you learn relaxation at faster and faster paces. It's part of the skill of "making fast easy."

                   

                  Here's a 2005 article from letsrun that I think speaks to the "knack" of moderate running and also to the objective data on progression running.

                     

                    Is a moderate 11.25 mile run in 1:40 better or worse for me than an easy 10 mile run in 1:40?

                     

                    Is this really a question?

                    npaden


                      Yes it was a question.  You hear so much talk about time on feet type workouts that make it sound like just being out there running for 1:40 is the important thing, not the pace that you are running it, or the distance you are running.  Within reason of course.

                       

                      Is this really a question?

                      Age: 50 Weight: 224 Height: 6'3" (Goal weight 195)

                      Current PR's:  Mara 3:14:36* (2017); HM 1:36:13 (2017); 10K 43:59 (2014); 5K 21:12 (2016)

                      npaden


                        Thanks everyone for the input.  I guess I won't stress about throwing a moderate run into the mix once a week or so.

                         

                        I've always been on the slow end of McMillan's easy pace and since his last update I haven't even been on the chart.  I'm finally getting to where I'm at the extreme end, I had a nice run this morning at a 9:11 pace that felt like a true easy run and that actually gets me into his range anyway.

                         

                        I really feel like the super easy running is critical when I'm doing a lot of volume and have some really hard workouts mixed in, but right now I'm just targeting 30 - 40 miles a week and maybe one hard workout a week if that.  I'm just in maintenance mode right now, working on hitting my 2,000 mile for the year goal and keeping my streak of 100 miles a month going.

                        Age: 50 Weight: 224 Height: 6'3" (Goal weight 195)

                        Current PR's:  Mara 3:14:36* (2017); HM 1:36:13 (2017); 10K 43:59 (2014); 5K 21:12 (2016)


                        Future running partner.

                          I don't think there is much physiological research on the moderate run, which is in part why it gets ignored in favor of the hard/easy principle.

                           

                          I have found that for me regular moderate running on the "fast end" of easy is a really great way to get fit, especially early season.

                           

                          Moderate runs are really better thought of as progression runs, as they ought to be spontaneous rather than planned. I think there are huge mental benefits to spending an off season learning to run fast when you feel good. It's a great way to get in touch with your body and to learn to read its signals. How hard can you push without losing that relaxed and flowing feeling?

                           

                          Working with this will help you read your body better during racing and help you learn relaxation at faster and faster paces. It's part of the skill of "making fast easy."

                           

                          Here's a 2005 article from letsrun that I think speaks to the "knack" of moderate running and also to the objective data on progression running.

                           

                          +1 on this one. I find moderate/steady state/mp runs to be very beneficial especially after doing a period of speed work and short racing. They help convert raw speed into speed endurance. I also treat them like a hard day, and I generally give myself a recovery or easy day afterwards, depending on how  I am feeling..