Running with the sub-3s -- ut oh (Read 2033 times)


Best Present Ever

    You make it all sound fun.  I'm excited to see how the marathon goes for you.  

     

    Jim is 45.  So is his wife, who is equally fleet and right in my AG.  Dammit. 

    xor


      Is it appropriate for me to say that calling the person "Coach" is kind of fun?  I think you are perhaps the only person I know over the age of 18 who does this without referring to the dude on Cheers.

       

      Good luck!

       


      Best Present Ever

        Is it appropriate for me to say that calling the person "Coach" is kind of fun?  I think you are perhaps the only person I know over the age of 18 who does this without referring to the dude on Cheers.

         

        Good luck!

         

        It is fun. IRL most people don't call him "Coach" but his name.  Coach, however, calls himself Coach. There is a certain Cheers-like aspect to it, minus the beer and general loser-ness.  Small town, folks who know each other, Norm-like favorites whose names folks like to shout out (Harry!) low-key drama, etc.  


        Interval Junkie --Nobby

          One week to go.

           

          tl;dr: Didn't over-train.  No injuries.  Feeling good.  No Taper-freakout.  Ready for NYCM.  3:10.  Fingers crossed.

           

          In a week I'll have firm evidence on which to judge this Fall's unorthodox training program.  But a lot can happen in a race.  A failure of execution makes it temping to look back at the preparation and see convenient sources of all evil.  Really, if there's any science to this, that evil should be visible now.

           

          So, here's my hypothesis about my Fall training: it was damn good. If I fail to hit 3:10 it will be because of a failure of execution, rather than poor preparation.  I don't feel that I peaked too early.  I didn't get over-trained (if my understanding/perception of the symptoms is correct).  I didn't get injured.  I have some indicators that I'm faster than when I started.

           

          It wasn't all rosy, of course.  I had some "failed" workouts.  Some niggles.  Just last week in our final Tempo run, I came up on the home stretch with a half-mile at 10k pace to go and was stopped in my tracks by a shot of pain in my back.  Felt like a pulled a muscle -- hard.  It was such a sudden shock of pain, I thought it might be a heart attack.  So I stopped running immediately, and in my 14th mile hazy mind took my pulse.  NO PULSE?!  SHIT!  WHAT DOES THAT MEAN!?  Of course, it means I'm an idiot when I run.  Moved my fingers over two inches and found the thumper.  Still.  Couldn't run.  Had to walk 2minutes then jog back with the guys.  Deep-inhales were rough.  The whole day it was tight.  Next day it was gone.  And there ends the full account of Taper-mystery injuries so far.

           

          The taper is a little short.  Just 2 weeks instead of 3.  Going from 72mpw to 58mpw to 36mpw to 20 before the race.  Well, feels like 2 weeks, anyway.  I'm not tweaking.  Feeling pretty good.  Hoping I arrive on Sunday with that pent-up "gonna kill it!" feeling.

           

          This season has been so completely different than my first marathon prep in the Spring.  After 80% of my runs, I was icing my knees on the couch for an hour; haven't used ice in a few months.  After long runs I was wiped; now I do yard work.  I was also killing the hard workouts, though -- running intervals in the pouring rain with my garmin beeping when my pace was too slow.  But this season, the sharpening workouts didn't seem very hard.  We did a ladder from 1600, 1000, 1200, 1000, 800, 1000, 400 and when we finished, I expected to go back up the ladder.  Of course, I'm still gravitating to the paces laid out at the beginning of the season.  I'm usually under them, but I try to stay within 15secs.  But I feel like I'm ready to run with the slowest of the sub-3 guys.  At least in intervals.

           

          This is one thing I've noticed about myself: I can out-perform the slowest of the sub-3s in interval training.  That is, if we are running hard, but given recovery time, I seem to recover faster.  However, for tempo workouts and continuous effort runs, I don't do as well.  This is something I'll bring up to Coach next season and see if I can hone in on.  If there was anything missing from this season's training program it was a mid-week long run at AHR.  A good 15miler would have been preferred instead of some of the Wednesday morning track workouts.

           

          I wasn't able to fit in a race this season.  Life got in the way.  So I find myself without any stick to measure my progress against in order to predict a good goal time.  I set out a goal of 3:10 at the beginning of training.  Coming off a 3:32 this got quite a few sideways looks.  Appropriate.  But now, I find myself trying to assess my fitness for the marathon and I sway between the two normal Taper extremes: on the one hand I think 3:10 is a stretch goal.  Heck, last year almost to the day, I ran a 5K-PR at 7:27 pace!  This year, I plan to run a marathon at 7:15 pace.  Then another side of me squints at 3:10 and thinks, it's in the bag; reach for more.

           

          I don't want to get greedy, though.  3:10 would have me over the moon.  Coach thinks 3:10 is "a good conservative goal for where you are right now."  That's really nice to hear.  Especially after he just harangued me for 15mins about going out too fast.  7:40, first mile, Coach, I promise.

           

          I have daydreams about reaching mile 22 and feeling like I can "lay the hammer down".

          2014 Goals:  sub-3 Marathon 

          Current Status 11/10: Back to building up miles.  Junk feels mostly okay.  Kinda.


          Interval Junkie --Nobby

            I'd love to hear some pre-race predictions / opinions of my training.

            2014 Goals:  sub-3 Marathon 

            Current Status 11/10: Back to building up miles.  Junk feels mostly okay.  Kinda.

              It's tough to predict with not much in the way of recent race results but I think 3:10 is a good conservative goal. I think you should try to hold yourself back to about  that pace for the first 30k to 20 miles or so and then assess whether you think you can pick it up gradually from there.

               

              The marathon can be very, very humbling. More so the less experience you have racing the distance and racing in general. A 22-minute PR would be nothing to sneeze at.

              Runners run.

                Looked at your training log.  Seem to me you should be able to make it.  Not sure about that hill run you have schedule for Monday.  I would recommend you do the rest of your run on a flat course. Just do not go out too fast.   

                  I think you got it.  Nothing new, and smart tactics will bring you home.  Good luck!

                    I'd love to hear some pre-race predictions / opinions of my training.

                     

                    You don't seem like the kind of person who would train this hard and then blow it on a "failure of execution." If you're aiming for 3:10 I wouldn't be surprised to see you do 3:05.

                     

                    I'm about to go back and read this whole thread over again. My next training cycle is going to look a lot like yours in some ways, minus the group training environment (I wish I had that).

                     

                    Good luck!

                      The marathon can be very, very humbling. More so the less experience you have racing the distance and racing in general.

                       

                      I can testify to that.

                       

                      And predicting someone's marathon finish time is like hurricane forecasting. Who the f' knows where it's gonna land, until about 12 hours before it actually does (equivalent of about mile 22 in a marathon)?

                       

                      Seems like you've put yourself in a position to give your goal an honest go, and that in itself is something to be applauded. Can't do much more than lay it on the line next Sunday. Hope you nail it. Good luck.

                      Come all you no-hopers, you jokers and rogues
                      We're on the road to nowhere, let's find out where it goes

                        I can testify to that.

                         

                        And predicting someone's marathon finish time is like hurricane forecasting. Who the f' knows where it's gonna land, until about 12 hours before it actually does (equivalent of about mile 22 in a marathon)?

                         

                        Seems like you've put yourself in a position to give your goal an honest go, and that in itself is something to be applauded. Can't do much more than lay it on the line next Sunday. Hope you nail it. Good luck.

                         

                        That's the way I would look at it.  Mikey said something the other day (not about you) about "earning the right" to post a x:yz goal.  You certainly have.  Now you just have to run the race and see what happens, because predicting is useless. 

                         

                        Plus, seeing predictions from others can add pressure.  I suppose that can be good or bad depending on your makeup.   

                         

                          I see you've only run a couple 5Ks since your spring marathon and none since July. I believe racing, and racing long, helps train you mentally for the marathon. You haven't been doing that kind of training. Well, perhaps some of your running with the sub-3s counts ... I dunno. Looks like some good advice above. Just don't give into temptation to slow down when it gets rough. It's only running.


                          Interval Junkie --Nobby

                            That's the way I would look at it.  Mikey said something the other day (not about you) about "earning the right" to post a x:yz goal.  You certainly have.   

                             

                            That makes a satisfying thump against the sounding-board, thanks.

                             

                            Just don't give into temptation to slow down when it gets rough. It's only running. --xhristopher

                             

                            I think I'm going to sharpie this to my arm before the race.

                             

                            Thanks for the best wishes, everyone.

                             

                            (one day I have to figure out how to quote multiple people in a single post.)

                            2014 Goals:  sub-3 Marathon 

                            Current Status 11/10: Back to building up miles.  Junk feels mostly okay.  Kinda.


                            Was it all a dream?

                              Great thread.

                               

                              Looks like you've put together a good training cycle.  I think you have a good shot at that 3:10.  Just remember that the NYC course is pretty tough.  The crowds are great, but the energy can make for some fast early miles that will take a toll later on.  The climb to central park at the end of that race is ROUGH.  Make sure you have gas left in the tank.  Best of luck on Sunday.

                              I'm in the business of misery...


                              Interval Junkie --Nobby

                                So, a chunk of the guys went down to Raleigh today.  They got the LAST 3 BIBS!  The course looks a lot harder than NYCM, if you ask me.  Mile 20-23 all up hill 200ft.  That's going to be kinda rough.  Not to mention almost the first half of the course is down hill.  At least we train here in Charlottesville where there isn't a 200m stretch of level road inside the county limits.  Funny, I hardly notice the hills on my normal routes these days.

                                 

                                Barry (the gazelle) is going to run Richmond (in a week).  He hasn't talked to Coach yet, so wasn't sure what to do.  Was thinking about 10@AHR or something.  We decided to run together today, though I was a bit embarrassed, since I figured I'd be slowing him down a lot.  We ran a relatively "flat" area called Whitehall Vineyards, where strangely enough, we first met this season.  I'd just come off an 8:00pace 12mi run, and he did a run in the same time for 14miles, or something like that.  He's a really nice guy, and after talking a bit he invited me to join them.  I demurred, as they were way too fast.  Then that week was when Coach invited me.

                                 

                                Same route, as before, though we tacked on a few of the big hills on the route -- only because we wanted to see where it lead.  My plan was 15 AHR with 10@MP.  I ended up running faster than that (the Barry influence, though he wasn't pushing at all).  Ended it as 14 a bit faster than planned, but I felt good about it.  While alone 7:10 has come to feel: comfortably hard.  But we were clicking off 7:05 miles while chatting away.  Not at all "conversational" but we managed a dialog.  Around 12mi my pace dipped a bit to 7:20 and I had to refocus.

                                 

                                This is really the first long run I've done with any of the guys since our first encounter.  Usually, I warm up with them and let them go.  Then I run alone.  This was so much better.

                                 

                                Of course, Coach is going to kill Barry for running all 14.

                                2014 Goals:  sub-3 Marathon 

                                Current Status 11/10: Back to building up miles.  Junk feels mostly okay.  Kinda.