Children's Healthcare of Atlanta Obesity Ads (Read 1741 times)


A Saucy Wench

    until you have to take a bus for an hour out of town to find a grocery store.

    I have become Death, the destroyer of electronic gadgets

     

    "When I got too tired to run anymore I just pretended I wasnt tired and kept running anyway" - dd, age 7

      Right, which is a bit less. But I'm still not sold on the idea that it's more expensive to eat healthy food. For example - last night I made pasta and a vegetable sauce for the family. The ingredients were: an onion, a couple of carrots, a few mushrooms, a few garlic cloves, a red pepper, a tin of chopped tomatoes, a couple of tablespoons of vegetable oil, a few handfuls of dried pasta, pinch of salt, pinch of pepper, a teaspoon of dried mixed herbs, a little bit of grated cheddar over the top to serve. I'm not sure what the total cost is - but not very much.

       

       

      Of course this is also dependent on having grocery stores that have fresh garlic, unprocessed carrots, mushrooms which is not available at reasonable prices.  Again in Camden, NJ you have to go 5 miles, by bus likely, to get to a store that has this.  So you are adding $5 and 2.5 hours round trip for travel shopping and waiting for the bus.  It is also dependent that at some point in time you were taught to cook a meal like this.  If you don't have a computer and internet and haven't bought cookbooks, this is a lot more difficult.  And considering what you can carry on a bus, you're making this trip twice a week.  I agree it can be done, but food is not the only factor.

      2014 Goals:

      Not destroy my back while running.

        Of course this is also dependent on having grocery stores that have fresh garlic, unprocessed carrots, mushrooms which is not available at reasonable prices.  Again in Camden, NJ you have to go 5 miles, by bus likely, to get to a store that has this.  So you are adding $5 and 2.5 hours round trip for travel shopping and waiting for the bus.  It is also dependent that at some point in time you were taught to cook a meal like this.  If you don't have a computer and internet and haven't bought cookbooks, this is a lot more difficult.  And considering what you can carry on a bus, you're making this trip twice a week.  I agree it can be done, but food is not the only factor.

         

        It's around 5km to the supermarket for me.. normally I go by bicycle.

         

        But whatever food you're buying to have to travel to get it, so presumably that's a constant - not something that only applies to healthy food?

         

        As far as the knowing how to cook it goes - I agree this is an issue. To cook the meal I described takes virtually zero skill - but some people don't even know how to peel and chop an onion. I'm not sure what the answer is for this kind of thing...


        A Dance with Monkeys

          It's around 5km to the supermarket for me.. normally I go by bicycle.

           

          Perhaps the added requirement for this experiment is that you live in a house and neighborhood you could afford to live in if your total household income is near or below the poverty line...otherwise you need to factor house payments into your $668/mo.

            Perhaps the added requirement for this experiment is that you live in a house and neighborhood you could afford to live in if your total household income is near or below the poverty line...otherwise you need to factor house payments into your $668/mo.

             

             

            I realise that US towns and cities are not laid out the same as they are here in the united solicialist soviet of euroland, but I wonder what proportion of the population of the states live more than that kind of distance from a supermarket?

             

            You have to eat something - so the analysis is the marginal cost of healthy food over the cost of other food; not the absolute cost of the former.

              It's around 5km to the supermarket for me.. normally I go by bicycle.

               

              But whatever food you're buying to have to travel to get it, so presumably that's a constant - not something that only applies to healthy food?

               

              As far as the knowing how to cook it goes - I agree this is an issue. To cook the meal I described takes virtually zero skill - but some people don't even know how to peel and chop an onion. I'm not sure what the answer is for this kind of thing...

               

               

              That's the access thing.  I could go four blocks in Camden and get frozen pizza's, corndogs, and lucky charms...but 5 miles for onions, non mini carrots, tomatoes, and real oatmeal.

              2014 Goals:

              Not destroy my back while running.


              Feeling the growl again

                 

                But whatever food you're buying to have to travel to get it, so presumably that's a constant - not something that only applies to healthy food?

                 

                 

                 

                In many inner city and poorer areas, this is not so.  If cost were the issue we'd be more likely to see those better off getting fatter and it's not so.  I described the local situation near where I work earlier.  Crappy food is nearby and easy to access in poor neighborhoods, healthier food requires bussing or driving and a lot of them don't have cars.

                 

                Cost, IMHO, is not the issue at all.  Access, socioeconomic, and family issues are much more relevant.  A 10-yr-old having to prepare food for himself and two younger siblings while their sole parent is at work (or the bar, judging from the news lately) is not going to be making the kinds of healthy meals being described no matter how simple.  If the prior 2 generations had terrible habits, where is the next going to learn good ones from?

                 

                MTA:  Regarding your question of what proportion don't live near a grocery store, Detroit has roughly 700,000 people (dropping by the day) and not a single chain grocery store remaining.  Having lived there, I can tell you the local mom and pop shops don't have much in the way of healthy eats you expect from the chain stores, especially when it comes to fresh produce.  It's a real problem.

                "If you want to be a bad a$s, then do what a bad a$s does.  There's your pep talk for today.  Go Run." -- Slo_Hand

                 


                A Sweetheart

                  Nope.  For a family of four, you get $668 per month, maximum (I believe). That's $167/week for two adults and two growing kiddos. Or two growing and eating teens.

                   

                  For people that at or below the poverty line, when school is in session they are providing students two meals a day.

                   

                  Also, concerning the lack of grocery stores in some urban neighborhoods, it is not a matter of residents demanding a place to buy fresh fruit and vegetables, but the grocery chains won't build a store there.  If there was money to be made they would build a store.  There is not a demand for healthy food in these neighborhoods.  These grocery chains aren't stupid.  They aren't going to build a store just to have their food rot.  Sure, you occasionally hear from people saying they would like to buy fresh, healthy food, but they are in the minority.  Why are these neighborhoods filled with crap fast food restaurants?  Because that's what the people demand.  

                  I want to do it because I want to do it.  -Amelia Earhart

                   

                  Tennessee Beer Mile Queen

                    I realise that US towns and cities are not laid out the same as they are here in the united solicialist soviet of euroland, but I wonder what proportion of the population of the states live more than that kind of distance from a supermarket?

                     

                    You have to eat something - so the analysis is the marginal cost of healthy food over the cost of other food; not the absolute cost of the former.

                     

                    As someone who switched to eating healthy in the last year, I spend less on food now.  Single person--less than $50/week.  Cooking from scratch has been, for me, significantly cheaper than the garbage I used to eat. I probably spend a tiny bit less on gas, too, since I buy more from the community market, which is on the way home from work, instead of driving a few miles to Wal Mart for frozen pizzas and corn dogs.

                     

                    We can argue all we want that the poor might not have internet access and might not know how to cook, counter with arguments about public libraries, turn that into opportunity cost, etc.  There's no satisfactory answer if you allow near-infinite possible variables to come into consideration.  Even $50 is arbitrary, despite it being a food stamp amount due to cost of living changes across the country.

                     

                    In some areas, it's not feasible to survive healthily on $50 a week for food.  In some, it is.  *Wonders if he can find an infographic with food prices across the US...hrm...*

                    "When a person trains once, nothing happens. When a person forces himself to do a thing a hundred or a thousand times, then he certainly has developed in more ways than physical. Is it raining? That doesn't matter. Am I tired? That doesn't matter, either. Then willpower will be no problem." 
                    Emil Zatopek

                      In many inner city and poorer areas, this is not so.  If cost were the issue we'd be more likely to see those better off getting fatter and it's not so.  I described the local situation near where I work earlier.  Crappy food is nearby and easy to access in poor neighborhoods, healthier food requires bussing or driving and a lot of them don't have cars.

                       

                      Cost, IMHO, is not the issue at all.  Access, socioeconomic, and family issues are much more relevant.  A 10-yr-old having to prepare food for himself and two younger siblings while their sole parent is at work (or the bar, judging from the news lately) is not going to be making the kinds of healthy meals being described no matter how simple.  If the prior 2 generations had terrible habits, where is the next going to learn good ones from?

                       

                      MTA:  Regarding your question of what proportion don't live near a grocery store, Detroit has roughly 700,000 people (dropping by the day) and not a single chain grocery store remaining.  Having lived there, I can tell you the local mom and pop shops don't have much in the way of healthy eats you expect from the chain stores, especially when it comes to fresh produce.  It's a real problem.

                       

                      +1.  It's been years since I've been to Detroit (former Michigander, though I never lived in the city), and it was a serious problem then.

                      "When a person trains once, nothing happens. When a person forces himself to do a thing a hundred or a thousand times, then he certainly has developed in more ways than physical. Is it raining? That doesn't matter. Am I tired? That doesn't matter, either. Then willpower will be no problem." 
                      Emil Zatopek

                        This thread is painting poor(er) people as somewhat helpless and as passive victims. It would be hard to change my current habits to make it on that kind of budget, but there are people who make that kind of income work because they care and are knowledgeable about how to budget. Once you get in the habit, I bet it's not that hard.

                         

                        A generation and a half ago, many Americans made food on that kind of income. Of course, then, you usually had one member of the household who was very devoted to that task. Now, cooking for yourself or for your family is coming back into style because it is the sign that you have made it--i.e. you have the leisure time to be able to cook.

                         

                        Interesting that the status of skill in budgeting and cooking and caring for the household became elevated as soon as it wasn't women's work...


                        A Dance with Monkeys

                          Food Desert

                           

                          And no, I don't think that grocery stores stay away due to simple supply and demand. I suspect that other issues involve branding, safety, suppliers access, availability of a staff, etc.


                          A Dance with Monkeys

                            on the way home from work

                             

                            This only works if you own a car.  Take a bus, and it is far more difficult.  You need then to factor car payments into the $50/wk.

                              This only works if you own a car.  Take a bus, and it is far more difficult.  You need then to factor car payments into the $50/wk.

                               

                              It'd be nigh-impossible here--rural area, no bus.  Could pretty easily ride the bike there (~1.5 miles to grocery, which is a half mile from work), but more, smaller trips then. 

                               

                              Oddly off-topic tangent (odd that it's off-topic on a running forum): my place of work is the highest point in Ohio.  Great for hill work, even if it's not really that high.

                              "When a person trains once, nothing happens. When a person forces himself to do a thing a hundred or a thousand times, then he certainly has developed in more ways than physical. Is it raining? That doesn't matter. Am I tired? That doesn't matter, either. Then willpower will be no problem." 
                              Emil Zatopek


                              A Sweetheart

                                 

                                And no, I don't think that grocery stores stay away due to simple supply and demand. I suspect that other issues involve branding, safety, suppliers access, availability of a staff, etc.

                                 

                                I think simple supply and demand is 99% of it.  Availability of staff should not be a problem.  In trying to lure major grocery chains to underserved areas, one of the topics that is brought up is job creation.  These areas need healthy food and they also need jobs.

                                 

                                One thing that hasn't been brought up is loss prevention.  These stores lose a heck of a lot more to shoplifting than stores in more affluent areas.

                                I want to do it because I want to do it.  -Amelia Earhart

                                 

                                Tennessee Beer Mile Queen