Lance Armstrong appears finally to have run out of rope. (Read 2696 times)


Gang Name "Pound Cake"

    I guess being an old fart, I just don't understand the mentality of a few here. I was taught back in the 60's that a cheat is a cheat is a cheat and that winning based on cheating means you are a disguised loser. When you win by cheating, you cheat not only the other competitors who are not cheating, but you cheat the audience who expects fairness and integrity. 

     

    What is the point of winning if you have to cheat to do it? I know, millions of dollars. Everyone knows that the Russians Olympians cheated big time back in the 1950's through whatever decade you care to look at. The Chinese cheat in gymnastics by changing the age of the competitors and the US and other countries with more honesty, have a tough time competing. 

     

    I have a friend who is the current national amateur bicycling champion and was at one time an Olympic team alternate. He says that at Lances level, nearly EVERYONE cheats but that at the amateur level he would be really pissed to find out that a fellow competitor was doping. But just because everyone does it does not make it right. And I'm rather ashamed that there are those on this board that say it is no big deal. What happened to honor? What happened to fair play? If your kid is a promising athlete and loses a kidney because he begins doping in high school without your knowledge because his heroes do it, then you will realize what a big deal this is. Yes, that IS GOING ON IN HIGH SCHOOL SPORTS. 

     

    Lance Armstrong is a lier, a thief, and a cheat as was his teammates who got caught and admitted that they all did it. There is a mountain of evidence for this conclusion even if it took this long to build a solid case against him. The real athletic heroes are the guys and gals on this forum that push themselves against long odds and with no Nike endorsement or other financial backing, and achieve great things, WITHOUT cheating their way to personal victory.

     

    If you really think this is not big deal, how would you feel to learn that you came in 2nd in the biggest race of your life because the guy who won skipped a couple of miles but was never caught? Does that put it into perspective for you?

     

    Scott

    - Scott

    2014 Goals: First Marathon - BQ2016 <3:40 (3:25:18) - 1/2M <1:45 - 5K <22:00

    2014 Marathons: 05/04 Flying Pig (3:49:02) - 09/20 Air Force (BQ 3:25:18) - 11/01 Indianapolis Monumental


    I'm back!

      Agreed.


      Menace to Sobriety

         He's retired from competitive cycling and, so far as I can tell, hurting nobody.  Let it go.  

         

         

        Tell this to the guys that finished 2nd to him.......then duck.

         

        MTA: Assuming the charges stick.

        Janie, today I quit my job. And then I told my boss to go f*** himself, and then I blackmailed him for almost sixty thousand dollars. Pass the asparagus.

          I assume Lance doped, as did his competition. Wrestling is fixed, etc... I'm a good bit jaded by pro cycling but still enjoy it as entertainment. I've never been a Lance fan but find myself increasingly sympathetic to him. I'm enjoying his triathlon run this year. It's good entertainment.

           

          I'd rather doping agencies deal with current events and leave history to historians. Those who care will understand that the Onion's article about the highest non doping rider from the 2007 tour finishing 142nd overall isn't far from the truth and understand the context of the era.


          Prince of Fatness

            With a budget of $13 million, 70% funded by taxpayers, I'd rather see the USADA devote its time and effort toward ensuring clean competition going forward.  There is more than enough to do on that front.

             

            Yeah, this is pretty much my position, too.

             

            I am not a big cycling fan and remember when Armstrong won all of those tours I thought it was cool, but did not really watch it much.  By why spend money going after a guy that did something years ago?  Will it solve the problem?  What is the problem?  OK, I'll assume that the problem is widespread doping in cycling (or let's say sports in general).  If that is the case then is stripping those titles and whatever else they do him going to fix the problem?  I'm not so sure.

             

            Just like anything else in this world if you want to fix this you need to put strict rules in place and their needs to be consequences.  You can nail Armstrong to a cross if you want but without harsh consequences there will still be doping in cycling.

             

            I'd be OK of the USADA came out and said, "We believe that Armstrong was doping, but we are not going to devote our resources toward proving it.  Instead, we are going to take steps to ensure that doping will not be tolerated going forward."

             

            Ban enough people for life and the message will eventually get across.

            Semi-retired.

              That seems contradictory.  There needs to be harsh consequences for cheating, and if there are enough lifetime bans it will fix itself, but Armstrong should have no consequences and should even get the benefit of having a life of luxury from endorsements, etc. because of what he cheated to accomplish?

               

                Tell this to the guys that finished 2nd to him.......then duck.

                 

                MTA: Assuming the charges stick.

                 

                Hmmm, I don't know about that. The tour podium was usually populated with folks like Ullrich, Zuelle, Vino, Basso, Mancebo, Rumsas. More likely he had better duck from that guy finishing 142nd. Of course he was on his personal jet heading out of France by the time that guy finished...

                  MrFinn wins the prize for most conflicted post:  We need strict rules with harsh penalties but the USADA shouldn't waste its money chasing Lance even if it's pretty clear he doped his ass off.  Okay then.

                  Runners run.


                  Menace to Sobriety

                    Hmmm, I don't know about that. The tour podium was usually populated with folks like Ullrich, Zuelle, Vino, Basso, Mancebo, Rumsas. More likely he had better duck from that guy finishing 142nd. Of course he was on his personal jet heading out of France by the time that guy finished...

                     

                    Okay, first non-cheat, then, if there is one.

                    Janie, today I quit my job. And then I told my boss to go f*** himself, and then I blackmailed him for almost sixty thousand dollars. Pass the asparagus.


                    Prince of Fatness

                      That seems contradictory.  There needs to be harsh consequences for cheating, and if there are enough lifetime bans it will fix itself, but Armstrong should have no consequences and should even get the benefit of having a life of luxury from endorsements, etc. because of what he cheated to accomplish?

                       

                      Yeah, maybe.  Depends on what they intend to do to him.  Are they going after his endorsement money?  Should they?  Or are they just stripping titles.  What would satisfy you since your tax dollars would be spend on this effort?

                       

                      I find it hard to believe he did not cheat, but on the other hand I am skeptical that the cheating gave him much of an advantage, if any.  I'm just not sold that going after him is not going to go far in helping to solve the problem.  That's just my opinion, one of the many different ones in this thread.

                      Semi-retired.

                        I wonder if he cheated in his last 2 races that he won?

                        I wonder if he was tested after he won his last 2 races?

                        I wonder why he would enter races in today's environment if he were cheating still today?

                         

                        i'm guessing that if he did get tested after the last 2 races that he won, and if he was dirty, we might come to find out about it.

                        I'm also guessing that if he was clean, then he's a bad-ass 41 year old athlete!

                         

                        (I'm willing to change my mind any day, but what he does is quite amazing... ).

                        2014 Goals:

                        #1: Do what I can do. <DOING>

                        #2: 365 Hours training <NOPE, INJURED>

                         


                        Prince of Fatness

                          MrFinn wins the prize for most conflicted post:  We need strict rules with harsh penalties but the USADA shouldn't waste it's money chasing Lance even if it's pretty clear he doped his ass off.  Okay then.

                           

                          Well if we have tons of money to piss away I say have at him.  But we don't, and I question how much chasing after Armstrong will help solve the doping problem.  I also question the motivation in going after Armstrong.

                          Semi-retired.

                            Yeah, maybe.  Depends on what they intend to do to him.  Are they going after his endorsement money? 

                             

                            Well, the only reason he has any endorsement money and a foundation and a private jet and a hot GF is because of the cheating.  Yeah, that's not completely true, but it has to be partially true.  I wonder, if they cheated all the way down to #142, who the vacated TDF titles go to?

                             

                            They are talking about barring him from triathlons.  I'm pretty sure that would have a financial impact on endorsements, visibility, etc.  And that may be the harshest penalty they can give. 

                             

                            We should probably have just let Whitey Bulger lead out the rest of his life, too, because it was a long time ago, after all.

                             

                            MTA: funny though, I sort of wish it could all just go away, because I think among all the bad there is a lot of good, too.    

                             

                              But just because everyone does it does not make it right. And I'm rather ashamed that there are those on this board that say it is no big deal. What happened to honor? What happened to fair play? If your kid is a promising athlete and loses a kidney because he begins doping in high school without your knowledge because his heroes do it, then you will realize what a big deal this is. Yes, that IS GOING ON IN HIGH SCHOOL SPORTS.

                               

                              This pretty much sums up why I think it IS a good use of a relatively tiny amount of government money to go after drug cheats.

                              Runners run.

                                I also have to add that I feel pretty much the way Finn does about say, Clemens or Bonds.  Why spend taxpayer money there, really?  What's funny about them is that neither of them has been proven guilty either, but they have no hope of endorsing anything and are pretty much unanimous villains. 

                                 

                                Lance has just kept rolling even though everyone pretty much believes he's guilty, and there's a certain number of us that resent that.