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Is the penguin shuffle in the morning normal? (Read 297 times)

    Be careful, npaden.

     

    I was just thinking this morning about how too many people try to increase their mileage too soon. You are going to increase beyond 50 miles a week this spring? Why not stay there for a bit and see what happens on 45-50... you might be surprised. I think a lot of runners have a "sweet spot" between 40-60mpw. It's a good level that allows you to do a couple workouts, get good aerobic stimulation, and also have an overall energy level that allows you to get stuff done at work and home, etc.

     

    Mileages of 70+ are pretty hard to sustain for work-a-day runners, even for faster runners who can get that sort of mileage done on 12 hours a week or so of running.

     

    But yeah you should expect to be stiff in the mornings...

       

      Yeah, I'm bumping my mileage quite a bit and into uncharted territory for me and that's the big reason why I'm asking this.

       

      I

       

      you just answered your own question.  If I had gone from 100mpm straight to 190 mpm I would be extremely tired too! + when have you taken  a day off?  If you continue to increase your mileage, then do so at a much slower rate & not 90% increase from one month to another!

      how about walking for a few minutes, stop & do some light stretching, start your watch & begin your run.  after your run, walk for a few minutes again.

         If that was life as a 40+ year old runner, I'd quit the sport.

        I think I lost my point amongst all the words.

         

        My experience has been that the creakiness/soreness/whatever just crept up over a period of a few years.  It happened so slowly that I almost didn't notice it, it just became normal to not be able to get up and down stairs very easily and do some daily things unless I was already up and moving.  People laugh at me because when I get up from sitting it normally takes me 20 steps or so to be "normal".  That's funny for a while, until you sort of realize hey, this isn't normal.  I'm supposed to be the one in good shape and I'm the one walking around like an old man.  There's a guy in my group who was a 2:36 marathoner and now he's not 60.  He hobbles around town running 9:15 pace and it's just kind of sad to see.  He's not injured, just creaky.  Is that from the 100 mile weeks - I don't know.

         

        This may just be mostly my own experience.  My thought was that it's interesting as runners how we get rewired about what is "normal".  Normal activity, normal pain in the morning or otherwise, normal prioritization of running.  That rewiring I think is what leads us to have whatever level of sucess we have, because we do the activity despite these things.  But to the rest of the world we are not normal.

         

        This is not news, I know.  Sheesh, I need to shut up now. 

         

          ..and yeah, npaden, you've built up quite a lot and what you are feeling is probably very normal.  You'll adapt, I'm sure.  I think it hit a nerve with me when I saw you were 44.

           

            A month ago I started wearing compression calf sleeves to sleep and I have found that the tightness in my calves in the morning is lessened compared to mornings when I forgot to wear them overnight. I can't prove exactly that it is the sleeves that helped me, but maybe it's worth trying if you already have a pair.

              I've started some PT in the past few weeks for chronically sore hips, hamstrings, have been doing a bunch of stretches that I'd never done.  It doesn't take away the morning sluggishness at all although it has taken away 90% of the soreness esp if I keep up on the stretches before bed.  I've been surprised about how much better I feel just after a run and also the next day than I had.

                Thanks for the words of caution, I have my training plan completed through the Marathon if you want to see how much I'm planning on ramping it up.  I'll be in the 50's for most of the remaining timeframe with 4 weeks bumping into the low 60's on alternating weeks with my long runs.  I'm following the Hansons Marathon Plan.

                 

                The 100 miles in December was my lowest mileage since March with some intentional and unintentional (sick) time off, so I don't feel like I'm really bumping things up 90%, but it is a big increase no doubt.  I'm trying to be careful, but at the same time I want to follow my plan and see if I can hit my marathon goal time.  So far I don't feel like I'm overtraining, but the "cummulative fatigue" that they talk about in their plan is peaking around the corner sometimes.  I think I'm adjusting to the mileage a little bit already, and the peak weeks are just a little over 20% increases from the last two weeks so nothing like the big ramp up I just went through.  I'm sure I'll take a day off somewhere in there, if not before the marathon then for sure I'll take a few days off after the marathon.

                 

                After my marathon plan I do plan on dropping my mileage back down, I'm hoping something around 40 mpw will be enough to get me to my goal 10K time by the end of the year.

                Age: 46 Weight: 205 Height: 6'2" (Goal weight 195)

                Current PR's:  Mara 3:48:09; HM 1:43:26; 10K 43:59; 5K 21:27

                  I think I lost my point amongst all the words.

                   

                  My experience has been that the creakiness/soreness/whatever just crept up over a period of a few years.  It happened so slowly that I almost didn't notice it, it just became normal to not be able to get up and down stairs very easily and do some daily things unless I was already up and moving.  People laugh at me because when I get up from sitting it normally takes me 20 steps or so to be "normal".  That's funny for a while, until you sort of realize hey, this isn't normal.  I'm supposed to be the one in good shape and I'm the one walking around like an old man.  There's a guy in my group who was a 2:36 marathoner and now he's not 60.  He hobbles around town running 9:15 pace and it's just kind of sad to see.  He's not injured, just creaky.  Is that from the 100 mile weeks - I don't know.

                   

                  This may just be mostly my own experience.  My thought was that it's interesting as runners how we get rewired about what is "normal".  Normal activity, normal pain in the morning or otherwise, normal prioritization of running.  That rewiring I think is what leads us to have whatever level of sucess we have, because we do the activity despite these things.  But to the rest of the world we are not normal.

                   

                  This is not news, I know.  Sheesh, I need to shut up now. 

                   

                  I understand what you are saying here.  I know when I was fat and lazy a couple years ago before I started running I can't recall ever being stiff and sore in the morning, UNLESS I actually worked out the day before.  Wait a second, I've run the last 39 days in a row so maybe that is why I've been stiff and sore in the mornings lately!

                  Age: 46 Weight: 205 Height: 6'2" (Goal weight 195)

                  Current PR's:  Mara 3:48:09; HM 1:43:26; 10K 43:59; 5K 21:27


                  Right on Hereford...

                      Thanks for the words of caution, I have my training plan completed through the Marathon if you want to see how much I'm planning on ramping it up.  I'll be in the 50's for most of the remaining timeframe with 4 weeks bumping into the low 60's on alternating weeks with my long runs.  I'm following the Hansons Marathon Plan.

                       

                      The 100 miles in December was my lowest mileage since March with some intentional and unintentional (sick) time off, so I don't feel like I'm really bumping things up 90%, but it is a big increase no doubt.  I'm trying to be careful, but at the same time I want to follow my plan and see if I can hit my marathon goal time.  So far I don't feel like I'm overtraining, but the "cummulative fatigue" that they talk about in their plan is peaking around the corner sometimes.  I think I'm adjusting to the mileage a little bit already, and the peak weeks are just a little over 20% increases from the last two weeks so nothing like the big ramp up I just went through.  I'm sure I'll take a day off somewhere in there, if not before the marathon then for sure I'll take a few days off after the marathon.

                       

                      After my marathon plan I do plan on dropping my mileage back down, I'm hoping something around 40 mpw will be enough to get me to my goal 10K time by the end of the year.

                       

                      Sounds good -- and the aches and pains you are describing sound typical for a marathon cycle. Good luck, my man.


                      Feeling the growl again

                        Don't forget that you don't need to get to some arbitrarily chosen mileage number within a given timeframe.  If you've not spent significant time at 40mpw, you can reap a lot of improvement there before going to 60.  In fact because you consolidate your improvements at 40 before going to 60, you likely will benefit even more when you do get to 60.

                         

                        Plans are guidelines.  Be careful not to over-reach because the plan tells you to do X.  If you feel the workout or mileage on a day is too much, change the plan.

                         

                        People talk about "ramping up" mileage.  That's really the wrong way to think about it, a stair-step approach would be more accurate (with an occasional step down, even).

                         

                        And, it's great that you have run 39 days in a row but don't get caught up in meaningless statistics either.  There is nothing wrong with rest days.  When I was in my prime I FORCED myself to take every third Monday completely off....it was insurance against unwittingly pushing myself too hard, and it really helped recharge the batteries for another hard 3-week push.

                         

                        Before I had an RA log I could not even tell you how many days in a row I had run without going back and counting...which I never did.  I cared about getting faster, so streaks were irrelevant.

                        "If you want to be a bad a$s, then do what a bad a$s does.  There's your pep talk for today.  Go Run." -- Slo_Hand

                         


                        Boston Strong in 2014!

                          I ran into this same realization in early 2009.

                          And this is how I found triathlon.  I embraced the challenge, and I haven't looked back.

                          I haven't been injured since before 2009.  I haven't been fatigued, and I recover quicker than I ever remember before.

                           

                          +1

                          I still run more than I bike or swim, but have been doing triathlon training for several years. I started when my husband developed plantar fasciitis and we couldn't run together. So we started cycling and swimming together, but running separately. From April to October, I cut back on the running and increase the other sports. It keeps things interesting and during the summer months, cycling and swimming are more pleasant than running in the heat. In the long run, I think it is healthier to cross train and I'll have something to fall back on when my running legs wear out.

                          2014 goals

                          2000 miles; 5k < 24:30; HM < 1:56Century Bike Ride

                           

                          Upcoming:

                          NYC Half Marathon 3/16Boston Marathon 4/21

                             

                            Yeah, I'm bumping my mileage quite a bit and into uncharted territory for me and that's the big reason why I'm asking this.

                             

                            It doesn't bother me to the point I feel that I need to back off my plan, but I didn't know if this was a warning sign that I just wasn't smart enough to notice.  I'm actually going to continue to increase my mileage over the next couple months so I'm thinking I'll be dealing with the penguin shuffle in the mornings for a bit longer.  My plan does have a few cut back weeks, but not anything dramatic.

                             

                            I do think I need to start streching and icing though, just need to start doing it.

                             

                            As others have said, it could be simply adapting to mileage. However, be aware of potential for plantar fasciatus. Difficulty walking first thing in morning and heel pain can be symptoms. But if yours is more overall leg fatigue, creakiness, then that may (or may not) be a concern.

                             

                            One of the hardest things in running is not just listening to your body, but understanding what it's saying and the proper response.

                             

                            Good luck.

                            "So many people get stuck in the routine of life that their dreams waste away. This is about living the dream." - Cave Dog


                            A Saucy Wench

                              Don't forget that you don't need to get to some arbitrarily chosen mileage number within a given timeframe.  If you've not spent significant time at 40mpw, you can reap a lot of improvement there before going to 60.  In fact because you consolidate your improvements at 40 before going to 60, you likely will benefit even more when you do get to 60.

                               

                              Plans are guidelines.  Be careful not to over-reach because the plan tells you to do X.  If you feel the workout or mileage on a day is too much, change the plan.

                               

                              People talk about "ramping up" mileage.  That's really the wrong way to think about it, a stair-step approach would be more accurate (with an occasional step down, even).

                               

                              And, it's great that you have run 39 days in a row but don't get caught up in meaningless statistics either.  There is nothing wrong with rest days.  When I was in my prime I FORCED myself to take every third Monday completely off....it was insurance against unwittingly pushing myself too hard, and it really helped recharge the batteries for another hard 3-week push.

                               

                              Before I had an RA log I could not even tell you how many days in a row I had run without going back and counting...which I never did.  I cared about getting faster, so streaks were irrelevant.

                               

                              +1 (and what Jeff said)  There are things to be said for higher mileage but there are also things to be said for remaining at a mileage where you can optimize the work before moving on.   I've been thinking a lot about the different thresholds of mileage (hey, gotta get something out of starting from scratch AGAIN) and there really is a sweet spot.  Below a certain mileage  (for me it is around 40-45ish) I get more gains from adding miles than anything else.  And it really doesnt matter what kind of miles.   I've done LHR, I've done structured paces, I've done "whatever".  Its all about the same.  And then I get to a point where to keep ramping it starts to change.  I have to start to choose what i want to do, miles or quality because both becomes less maintainable.  And somewhere near that threshold comes a point where the gains come more from the quality than the volume.    I assume if I stuck at that volume long enough I could move again, maybe not.   There comes a point at the 9ish minute mile avg pace where it is just a lot of TIME on the feet.

                              I have become Death, the destroyer of electronic gadgets

                               

                              "When I got too tired to run anymore I just pretended I wasnt tired and kept running anyway" - dd, age 7

                              northernman


                              Fight The Future

                                What Spaniel said.

                                 

                                Also, make a point to start stretching.  I didn't stretch for years, and I didn't realize how much it helps to do so until I started doing it regularly.  I used to feel like my legs were tight rubber bands.  I now stretch usually daily... more when I increase my running and my legs feel tight.  It only takes 5 to 10 minutes, and it makes walking around and bending over a heck of a lot easier. You don't have to stretch in order to be a runner, but it sure makes your body feel a lot better.

                                 

                                Hmm, I have never done stretching, and every time I start to wonder if I should add that, I google "is stretching good for runners" and end up with a list of articles that mostly say it is either worthless or even detrimental to performance (for example, this one: http://sweatscience.com/stretching-is-bad-for-power-and-endurance-running/ ). My daughter is an avid ballet dancer, and she tells me I should certainly stretch, because I can't even touch the ground with my fingertips when standing, while she can put her full palms on the ground, with straight legs. Wish I knew the answer to this one

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