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Need advice on appropriate Heart Rate (Read 850 times)


Grand Poobah

    Hi All, I just started running about 4-6 weeks ago, and only about three weeks ago started a formal training regimen (Spring Training). I had run occasionally in the past but nothing too consistent. In any case, I find that monitoring my heart rate, statistics, and progress are very motivating for whatever reason. I have been trying to determine what the ideal HR range would be for me to run at to maximimize aerobic fitness. Now, I realize that most people are going to say that for a beginner that the most important thing is to simply get out and run regularly, and that the second most important thing is to run for distance, and you don't really need to monitor your heart rate, yada yadaa yada. I realize that, and am factoring those things in as my top priorities. However, as I've already mentioned tracking this data is very motivating to me (for whatever reason), and I want to be training at whatever HR range is likely to deliver the most benefits and the most progress in the most efficient way. So, with that being said, I'm looking for advice and feedback on what the best Heart Range would be for me to stick in during this initial 12 week program. My relevant detailsl are as follows: Resting HR: 62 Max HR: 185 (age 35) I've typically been trying to keep my HR around 150, which means running agonizingly slowly...I could comfortably run a bit faster but would likely see my average HR in the 160's. I think you can see my profile/log on here for my runs over the last few weeks. Anyway, thanks in advance for the advice. br
    snooz_bar


        There's a group here dedicated to HR training. http://runningahead.com/groups/LOWHRTR/
          Wow... I'm off the charts. My heart must go to 11.


          Grand Poobah

            So this chart begs a couple of questions I'm assuming the "Aerobic" (cardio/training) range is what would be best for aerobic or endurance fitness. First, I guess it is suggesting my max should be 148 which is certainly lower than i expected. What is the so-called weight control/fitness range? In any case, a 130-148 range is quite a bit lower than some of the calculators I was using to determine this (some were suggesting a max more in the 160's). Since i've been running slow as hell and averaging more in the area of 150-155 for the bulk of my runs, I guess I need to slow down a bit further (somehow). I kind of expected 145 or so might be the more ideal range but when I run at that pace it doesn't feel like much of a cardio workout at the end...


            Dave

              Huggy, looks like you're using an estimate of your max heart rate rather than a measured maximum. The 220-AGE calculation is pretty close for many people but you could be higher or lower. The method that I use is to try and run most of my easy runs under a aerobic heart rate "ceiling" and run my harder runs above my anaerobic heart rate "floor". I don't use zones really. I just do most of my running under the ceiling and do an occasional hard run (1-2 per week) above the floor. I use the "karvonen" method to calculate these values at 70% of my max for my ceiling and 85% of my max for my floor. The formula is: RESTING + % X (MAX - RESTING). For me, that comes to 55 + .7 *(183-55) = 144.6 for my ceiling. Similarly, I get about 163 for my "floor" on hard days. Having said that, I'm not terribly strict about it but it does provide some guideposts for my workouts. You can check my log. I log both mile splits and average heart rate for each mile. Over time, the pace that I can run under my "ceiling" has been getting gradually faster.

              I ran a mile and I liked it, liked it, liked it.

              dgb2n@yahoo.com

                Please go to the LHR user group. Lots of info there from people who have been there and done that. And you don't have a clue what your max HR is, just an arbitrary estimate based on an average. You may be well above the average, which explains the agonizingly slow. We're all different. For me, 150 wld be near threshold pace.
                  I just started running about 4-6 weeks ago, and only about three weeks ago started a formal training regimen (Spring Training)... In any case, I find that monitoring my heart rate, statistics, and progress are very motivating for whatever reason. I have been trying to determine what the ideal HR range would be for me to run at to maximimize aerobic fitness. ...l I want to be training at whatever HR range is likely to deliver the most benefits and the most progress in the most efficient way. ... I'm looking for advice and feedback on what the best Heart Range would be for me to stick in during this initial 12 week program. My relevant detailsl are as follows: Resting HR: 62 Max HR: 185 (age 35) I've typically been trying to keep my HR around 150, which means running agonizingly slowly...
                  Without knowing exactly what "Spring Training" is, the folks who say you should run easy and not do too much too soon are probably right. Over 30 years ago, I was running on the local high school track one morning when a gal who was out there asked for advice on the disabling knee pain she was having. The conversation continued like this: Me: How many miles are you running? Her: 7 miles a day. Me: How many days a week do you run? Her: Every day. Me: Wow. How long have you been running? Her: Three weeks.... As far as the heart rate: Check out the "Low HR Training" user group. There's a "boilerplate" sticky thread which should give you a lot of info (from "formationflier", who has a good FAQ about LHR training.) You realize that your mileage at this point is pretty low, of course. HR training will pay off more if you ever decide to put in more time running. Without knowing the origin and goal(s) of your Spring Training program it's hard to say what your training heart rate(s) should look like. 150 probably isn't too far off (some diehards would say your Maximum Aerobic Function (MAF) is 145 and you should train there or lower for a while.) Others would calculate a bunch of different "zones", etc. I think you should take the advice of Frank Shorter's coach at Yale. "Run Easy"... (ok, so the coach spoke with a lisp and said "Wun easy, Fwank, wun easy"...) Gino (about to go out for a 2 1/2 hour run... "easy", of course.)
                  rlemert


                    You could always use an empirical approach: Go out and run at what you think is a comfortable pace and see what your HR averages out to. The next time you run, try a different pace. Keep track of how you feel and your average HR. Eventually you'll see that "below xxx I feel like I could run another five miles, above there I feel like I'm done for the day."


                    Grand Poobah

                      SlowGino -- thanks for the feedback. The "Spring Trainging" program i am doing is this Hal Higdon program which basically gets you up to 15 mpw at about 12 weeks (im on week 3 about now)... http://www.halhigdon.com/spring/Springnovice.htm My longer term goal is basically just to finish this program and then see where it goes from there. Probably try to push it up a bit to 20 or 25 mpw afterwards, but just focused on the 12 week program at this point. My main goal during this program is just to improve aerobic conditioning so that i can run faster at a lower or the same heart rate over longer periods of time. So, again, I know that just getting out and running is the main thing but i like to do things optimally. I've always found running miserable but I have found a "system" which motivates me and it involves being 'particular' about tracking data. I think I'll just try to keep it under 150 at this point....I can keep it under or very close to under 150 for all the runs on the program at this point if i go relatively slowly (well, really slowly)...so i'll stick with that and hope like hell i can get faster at the same heart rate in short order. rlemert -- the empirical aspect is what motivated me to post this question -- i feel like i would enjoy running just a bit faster and also that it might be a slightly better workout, but i tend to over do it historically so i wanted to check. I think i should probably just stick with the under 150 for the next 12 weeks and then reevaluate. thanks for the feedback all!
                      C-R


                        Please go to the LHR user group. Lots of info there from people who have been there and done that. And you don't have a clue what your max HR is, just an arbitrary estimate based on an average. You may be well above the average, which explains the agonizingly slow. We're all different. For me, 150 wld be near threshold pace.
                        Huggie Bear. Go to the Low Heart Rate forum where you can learn loads of info. Until I read some of the basics and read a couple of books on the subject, I had no idea of the intricasies of HR training. Good group there (full disclosure - I'm a member) and very open to helping others. For what it is worth, I am on my base building period and have already seen improvements in performance and weight loss through LHR. Best of luck.


                        "He conquers who endures" - Persius
                        "Every workout should have a purpose. Every purpose should link back to achieving a training objective." - Spaniel

                        http://ncstake.blogspot.com/

                          HuggieBear, I may have overlooked it in earlier posts, but those age-based max hr formulas can be off as much as 20 bpm in either direction. IOW, your max hr might be anywhere between 165 and 205 bpm. Using an incorrect max hr is a frequent issue when runners first start using heart rate training and why the runs may seem really slow. Since you're just starting, I'd just run by conversational effort: for your easy runs, be able to talk in complete sentences. There might be portions where you pick up the effort a little, in which case you might be talking in short sentences or phrases. After you've been running a bit, you can do a field test running hard up a hill or something where you can take the heart rate just before where you start to gasp, divide that by 0.9, and use that as max hr. But it's easier just to go by breathing to judge your effort.
                          "So many people get stuck in the routine of life that their dreams waste away. This is about living the dream." - Cave Dog
                          jEfFgObLuE


                          I've got a fever...

                            HuggieBear, I may have overlooked it in earlier posts, but those age-based max hr formulas can be off as much as 20 bpm in either direction. IOW, your max hr might be anywhere between 165 and 205 bpm.
                            Yup. I'm 37 and my max is at least 195 (as opposed to the estimated 183). If you're going to run by heart rate (as opposed to feel, which is really the better way to go), you'll need an accurate estimate of your max.

                            On your deathbed, you won't wish that you'd spent more time at the office.  But you will wish that you'd spent more time running.  Because if you had, you wouldn't be on your deathbed.