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What to do with all the information? (Read 1161 times)

    Kevin, I'm not sure whether one way is better than another.  I'm not smart enough to know.  However, for me, it's a game of data collection and information.
    I train by HR, and work my HR at a comfortable effort (143 - 150).  I try to keep 90+% of my miles in that range.

    My goal is to have my HR maintain the same rate while under consistent conditions (ie. treadmill in controlled environment at constant speed).  If I can, I consider my self ready for a longer distance (and / or an increase in speed).  Ideally, I'd be able to run 13+ miles at a consistent HR at the same speed if in a controlled environment.

     

    Regarding the data that I collect, I factor in the "feel" I have after a training outing and compare it to the data that I see (speed, HR, etc.).

    On Monday, I did a 53 mile bike ride in the heat (starting at 7:45am).  By the time that I got off my bike at 11:30am, it was hot (100+ degrees), and I ran out of fluids miles earlier.  My HR increased way too high, and I was overheated.  The last 10 miles were brutal, and my AVGHR during those miles were way higher than I wanted them to be, and way higher than it should have been (maybe 175 +/-). 

    Yesterday, I ran 3 miles, where the 2nd and 3rd mile were at 149bpm at a controlled pace in a controlled environment, while normally, those miles are at 144 (same conditions).  I blame the increased bpm on the high effort and fatigue following my bike ride in hot conditions outing on Monday.

     

    Regardless, I'm not sure that the Maffetone method works for soccer / hockey conditioning.  I believe that the low HR training is better suited for endurance, and less suited for interval sprints that you see in those sports.  (I'm likely wrong there, though, and some Maffetone people may chime in and correct me).

     

    If nothing else, collect the data, and use it in 5 or 10 years to see progress and / or consistency.  All data is good!


    Cheers,

     

    Sr. Lopez,

    (In response to your recent post, I wanted to re-direct to my original post within this dialogue...)

    With all due respect, I was directing my response to Kevin as he was describing the data that he is already collecting through his Garmin 305.  Within the same message, I stated that I simply don't know what the right way to measure is for what he's trying to do or what anybody should do (perceived feel, measuring HR, whatever).  (I also state what "I" do within my message without stating what "he" should do, nor what "you" should do, nor what "others" should do.)

    After sending this post, you said that all data isn't good, and I responded by agreeing with you and saying that keeping the data for a later day's analysis is "ok", and throwing it away later is ok.

    After that, I added in my obsession with stupid data that I collect because I have a compulsive data disorder, but I wasn't saying that all people should do what I do.  In fact, I was stating my obsession in a way that I'm guessing (or at least I was hoping) most readers would have understood as an exaggeration of data collection

     

    But, I'm also likely wrong here.

    Have a great evening,

    Brian

    2014 Goals:

    #1: Do what I can do. <DOING>

    #2: 365 Hours training <NOPE, INJURED>

     

      So there!Angry

      Big grin

         But you are prescribing this as a "do it, it's good!" thing to others.

         

         

        (This was the part that I'm taking exception to...)

        2014 Goals:

        #1: Do what I can do. <DOING>

        #2: 365 Hours training <NOPE, INJURED>

         


        Needs more cowbell!

          ...And I (at times) use towels on leather seats for temperature moderation rather than cleanliness.

           

          This is where the appeal of leather seats is lost on me.  They burn the backs of my legs in the Summer and freeze my ass in the Winter.  Plus the extra grand or so to buy a car with leather in the first place.  My parents had cars with vinyl seats back in the 70s and 80s...to me leather feels like more expensive vinyl that cows had to die for.  I'll stick with my upholstered seats, heh.

          I shoot pretty things! ~

          '14 Goals:

          • 6 duathlons (1 Olympic distance)

          • 130#s (and stay there, gotdammit!)

            It's a game I play.  I started it back then based on an old "click 'n clack" monologue I heard on NPR, and my wife and oldest son absolutely hate the log.

             

            If that's the same Click 'n Clack episode I heard recently, the father's gift of his car to his daughter was predicated on her continuing to keep the meticulous records.  They advised her to throw the book out the window.

            Well at least someone here is making relevance to the subject.

              Sometimes data and analysis can get in the way of "finding x," as in KerCanDo's avatar. That was, in fact, that OP's problem. How to sort the noise.

               

              I liked what Scout said.

               

              As out of style as they may seem in the "internet age," books are the place to start. Instead of a multiplicity of disorganized voices crying in the wilderness, you get someone who has cared enough to write everything out in a coherent and organized way, carry it to press, etc. So, read a couple of books. You get information AND a frame. Some authors: Daniels, Pfitzinger, Hudson. None of these are conclusive, but each of them is written with the heart of a teacher instead of with the heart of an arguer (as happens sometimes to even the very best internet yahoos.)

                This is where the appeal of leather seats is lost on me.  They burn the backs of my legs in the Summer and freeze my ass in the Winter.  Plus the extra grand or so to buy a car with leather in the first place.  My parents had cars with vinyl seats back in the 70s and 80s...to me leather feels like more expensive vinyl that cows had to die for.  I'll stick with my upholstered seats, heh.

                 

                I'm with ya on that. I prefer cloth seats, but I had to go leather for my last purchase. Cloth seats, especially in non-blackish colors, are either not available, or are getting hard to find in a lot of models these days.

                  If that's the same Click 'n Clack episode I heard recently, the father's gift of his car to his daughter was predicated on her continuing to keep the meticulous records.  They advised her to throw the book out the window.

                   

                  Yes, same episode.  I love how they say "predicated" and I can hear their laugh as they're passing on the advice to the daughter.

                  2014 Goals:

                  #1: Do what I can do. <DOING>

                  #2: 365 Hours training <NOPE, INJURED>

                   


                  Best Present Ever

                    My son is now 17 1/2 years old, and has inherited the camry from me.  He keeps up with the log, and when he's riding with his friends, he makes them log the data points while he's pumping the gas.

                    He's been driving the card for 1 1/2 years, and EVERY TIME I enter the car, I ask him to hand me the book.  I just look at the pages.

                     

                    It's kind of funny, and I bet he'll remember being forced to do it.

                    I also have a Jetta log and an Expedition log that has 2 and 4 years of data.

                     

                    Again, I know it has no value other than to iritate my family and allow me to spend an hour or two creating charts and graphs while riding in the car on family vacations.

                     Can you imagine the discussion with the therapist in a few years?  And then the discussion the therapist will have when telling stories with other therapists?  "Oh I can top that! MY former client's father made him keep a car log!  and demanded to see it everytime he got in the car! No, I swear I'm not making this up!"  I think it's awesome.  Parents should mildly torture their children. 

                    Scout7


                    CPT Curmudgeon

                      I must say, I do think that Brian's methodologies have merit to them.  The old business adage "You can't manage what you can't measure" holds true a lot of the time, and that having information at hand is generally a good thing.  Note, I said "information", not data.  What Brian gathers is, for him, information, because he has a contextual framework in which the data resides and gives it meaning.  He seems to know and understand what the data points represent to a fairly high degree, and he also acknowledges the potential weaknesses of the information.  His attitude is reflective of his personal and professional experiences with data gathering and analysis, and it obviously works for him.  But the biggest point is that he ENJOYS it.  That's the most important thing of all.

                       

                      If logging lots of data points is not enjoyable, you are going to be far less likely to do it.  And it is better to log a small amount of data than no data at all, at least if you are even remotely interested in improving your performance in races.  What you log is less important than the fact that you do log something, and that you both understand and appreciate the data, while acknowledging the potential pitfalls said data can introduce.

                       

                      In the end, all the information in the world will not change the fact that we will all, at some point, screw something up and get injured, or post a bad race time, or hit a rough spot in training.  It happens.  Your information may help predict some things, may help you recognize patterns, but in the end, you cannot know all of the potential outcomes.


                      an amazing likeness

                        If that's the same Click 'n Clack episode I heard recently, the father's gift of his car to his daughter was predicated on her continuing to keep the meticulous records.  They advised her to throw the book out the window.

                         

                        Last week the father called in to defend himself.  He had a somewhat different version than the daughter....

                        Choosing my words carefully has never been my strength I've been known to be vague and often pointless


                        Feeling the growl again

                          This is what I will say about gathering data:

                           

                          If you have fun doing it, you can foresee some potential use for it, and you have the time, then go for it.  I would think it irrational to log data you KNOW you will never use, but if it MAY come in handy AND you both have time to do it and enjoy it then what is the harm?

                           

                          I used to log a lot more detail then I do now.  Over the years as my career has progressed, I've become a homeowner, and had children, time has become a very precious commodity.  I very much enjoy keeping a minimal log -- which is very useful to me and I reference often -- and using the basic fields I do on the RA log is not that hard.  The reason I was on RA for a couple years before I started using the log was because I was frankly intimidated by all the data capture and it was much easier just to continue my paper log.  Eventually I just decided to only fill in what I wanted to and the heck with the rest.  Some of the auto-calculation actually saves me time and now that I travel more I can log away from home without keeping temporary notes on scraps of paper to bring home.

                           

                          However, I am now in a position that is all about data, curating it, making inferences from the important bits, and passing these data/conclusions on to my "customers".  I am all too familiar with how one can bury themselves in mountains of potentially useful data and then become paralyzed by it.  Especially for newer runners, I would encourage you to start out with the basics rather than record mountains of potentially useful data you are ill-equipped to make sense of.

                          "If you want to be a bad a$s, then do what a bad a$s does.  There's your pep talk for today.  Go Run." -- Slo_Hand

                           

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