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Nice Summary of Jthe Jack Daniels training method in RW (Read 2023 times)


I've got a fever...

    Easy there boozers, I said Jack Daniels not Jack Daniel's. Adding the asterisk apostrophe adds 80-proof! Cool Anyhow, a nice outline of Coach Daniels' key principles in a column by Amby Burfoot. I know we've covered a lot of these items on the site, but it's nice to capture them in one place. Personally, I'm still unsure about #4 (Pump up your stride rate to 180 per minute). I hear this all the time, and I believe it -- for racing and speedwork. But it doesn't seem to work for me for easy/slow runs. Daniels analyzed Olympians in competition and determined 180 was optimal. Ever since the, everyone says 180! 180! Fine for going fast, but not slow, IMHO.

    On your deathbed, you won't wish that you'd spent more time at the office.  But you will wish that you'd spent more time running.  Because if you had, you wouldn't be on your deathbed.

      I guess you've already been drinking some of the 80 proof, since that's not an asterisk. I agree on your 180 comment. After I read his book, I of course had to see what my stride rate was. It was in the 160 neighborhood. After trying to speed it up at my easy pace, I decided to say screw it - I do not need to anything else to obsess over. I'm guessing I can't speed it up without speeding up my pace.

      When it’s all said and done, will you have said more than you’ve done?


      I've got a fever...

        I guess you've already been drinking some of the 80 proof, since that's not an asterisk.
        Blush

        On your deathbed, you won't wish that you'd spent more time at the office.  But you will wish that you'd spent more time running.  Because if you had, you wouldn't be on your deathbed.

          Of course I had to look at this post since it said "Jack Daniels training method".................. Cool PS - I am belated Jeffgoblue, but I hope you are healing well from the hernia surgery!
          Elena


          I've got a fever...

            PS - I am belated Jeffgoblue, but I hope you are healing well from the hernia surgery!
            Doing very well thank you. Big grin

            On your deathbed, you won't wish that you'd spent more time at the office.  But you will wish that you'd spent more time running.  Because if you had, you wouldn't be on your deathbed.

            Scout7


            CPT Curmudgeon

              Ugh......cadence....... I'm biting my tongue on this.


              I've got a fever...

                Ugh......cadence....... I'm biting my tongue on this.
                Spit it out you friggin' bastard! (Sorry, old Irish joke).

                On your deathbed, you won't wish that you'd spent more time at the office.  But you will wish that you'd spent more time running.  Because if you had, you wouldn't be on your deathbed.

                Scout7


                CPT Curmudgeon

                  Nah. My position on cadence has been well-documented. I'm not getting into arguments today.


                  Imminent Catastrophe

                    Personally, I'm still unsure about #4 (Pump up your stride rate to 180 per minute). I hear this all the time, and I believe it -- for racing and speedwork. But it doesn't seem to work for me for easy/slow runs. Daniels analyzed Olympians in competition and determined 180 was optimal. Ever since the, everyone says 180! 180! Fine for going fast, but not slow, IMHO.
                    I think it's helped me in marathons. I notice when I start to tire late my cadence slows down, but if I make a conscious effort to keep it up I run better.

                    "Able to function despite imminent catastrophe"

                     "To obtain the air that angels breathe you must come to Tahoe"--Mark Twain

                    "The most common question from potential entrants is 'I do not know if I can do this' to which I usually answer, 'that's the whole point'.--Paul Charteris, Tarawera Ultramarathon RD.

                     

                    √ Tahoe Rim Trail 100M 20/21 July 2013

                    Boston Marathon 21 April 2014

                    Tahoe Rim Trail 100M 19/20 July 2014


                    I've got a fever...

                      Nah. My position on cadence has been well-documented. I'm not getting into arguments today.
                      Fair enough. Personally, I just run whatever feels natural and try not to mess with it. I settle in at close to 180 when running fast, and if that's what's most efficient, I guess I'm lucky. Seems like the kind of thing that will cause injury if you tinker with it too much.

                      On your deathbed, you won't wish that you'd spent more time at the office.  But you will wish that you'd spent more time running.  Because if you had, you wouldn't be on your deathbed.

                      Scout7


                      CPT Curmudgeon

                        Fair enough. Personally, I just run whatever feels natural and try not to mess with it. I settle in at close to 180 when running fast, and if that's what's most efficient, I guess I'm lucky. Seems like the kind of thing that will cause injury if you tinker with it too much.
                        That's generally my standpoint. I have seen alot of advocating that people try to artificially focus on cadence (not here, specifically). That's something I don't agree with. Also, I see alot of focus on the 180 as a magic number for everyone, which is not always the case. 180 is an average; some run at a lower rate, some higher. It's a matter of personal efficiency, and mechanics, rather than anything else. Most people, from elite to MOP'ers, already run within 10% of 180 strides per minute as it is. The biggest determinant of speed is force applied to the ground. Higher force allows for a longer stride and higher stride rate.
                          I think one of the things that sometimes gets lost in the shuffle when trying to dissect theories and applications is the real world mechanics. As was mentioned by an above poster, most runners are fairly close to that 180 magic number. I think if you look at mechanics to see heel strike, body position, etc. then you can determine if a runner is performing efficiently or not. just my 2 cents worth. That being said, a lot of my team's training program is rooted in the philosophy of what Daniels has written about.
                          "Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty, and well preserved body, but rather, to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming: "WOW... WHAT A RIDE!!!" Muskingum College XC
                          Scout7


                          CPT Curmudgeon

                            I think one of the things that sometimes gets lost in the shuffle when trying to dissect theories and applications is the real world mechanics. As was mentioned by an above poster, most runners are fairly close to that 180 magic number. I think if you look at mechanics to see heel strike, body position, etc. then you can determine if a runner is performing efficiently or not. just my 2 cents worth. That being said, a lot of my team's training program is rooted in the philosophy of what Daniels has written about.
                            I will agree with this. And I don't think his basic philosophy is wrong. I think the application of it is where people run afoul. Of course, I also think it depends on the group that you're talking to. I'm finding more and more that triathletes view running completely differently than runners do.
                              It's a good summary. It just leaves out the fact that Daniels is very careful when prescribing I and R pace runs and they're usually once you've had a couple of months in most of his more basic programs.
                                Good point Scout. I agree that his philosophy is good. His book is also very handy in that it breaks down the training based on the race you want to train for. Triathletes are in a world to their own but i think that with some planning, it would be possible to implement the philosophy for that philosophy as well. I Believe it is Friel (maybe) that has done extensive work on training triathletes (I Believe one book is titled something along the line of 'Triathletes Training Bible' or something to that effect.
                                "Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty, and well preserved body, but rather, to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming: "WOW... WHAT A RIDE!!!" Muskingum College XC
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