Help critique my interval workout. (Read 855 times)

    It depends on what the meaning of "is" is.

     

    I'm afraid I will never be able to understand how you can define easy about a hundred different ways in running.

     

    I don't know many folks that would consider 400m intervals an easy run.  I don't think I ever said it was a hard workout, but I sure wouldn't consider it to be easy.  Sure it was easier than maintaining a 7:00 pace for a 5K, and I enjoyed the smooth running and focusing on my form, but I don't think I would be considered easy.

    Age: 46 Weight: 205 Height: 6'2" (Goal weight 195)

    Current PR's:  Mara 3:48:09; HM 1:43:26; 10K 43:59; 5K 21:27

      Runs vs. workouts, and its all relative.

      Runners run.

        It depends on what the meaning of "is" is.

         

        I'm afraid I will never be able to understand how you can define easy about a hundred different ways in running.

         

        I don't know many folks that would consider 400m intervals an easy run.  I don't think I ever said it was a hard workout, but I sure wouldn't consider it to be easy.  Sure it was easier than maintaining a 7:00 pace for a 5K, and I enjoyed the smooth running and focusing on my form, but I don't think I would be considered easy.

         

        12 x 400 w/400 jog @ 5k - 10k pace is an easy workout. That's all there is to it.

         

        Nice workout.

          Okay. I'll buy into that. Especially with the 400m recoveries.

          Age: 46 Weight: 205 Height: 6'2" (Goal weight 195)

          Current PR's:  Mara 3:48:09; HM 1:43:26; 10K 43:59; 5K 21:27


          Feeling the growl again

             Why should a speed workout be hard?

             

            I know what you're saying and I don't disagree, but to be honest I've not done a lot of interval workouts I didn't consider solidly in the moderate/hard (not race) effort level.

            "If you want to be a bad a$s, then do what a bad a$s does.  There's your pep talk for today.  Go Run." -- Slo_Hand

             

              I know what you're saying and I don't disagree, but to be honest I've not done a lot of interval workouts I didn't consider solidly in the moderate/hard (not race) effort level.

               

              I wasn't saying anything. I was just asking a question. (I certainly wasn't saying that workouts should be easy...)


              RunsWithDog

                I don't know peanuts.

                 

                That said, congrats on your first successful interval workout!! Smile

                 

                I am doing the same thing you are -- testing out these speed workouts during my lead up to the Hansons plan. I'm in week 5 of the Beginner plan, so the last week of unstructured base building (at least unstructured for me/anyone who is/was already running more than the plan calls for in those weeks).

                 

                I did 8x400 first, then the next week 7 x 600, then today I did 5 x 800s.

                 

                I have had pacing and HR quandaries just like you. My 5k pace isn't getting my HR as fast as I expected, even with the 800s today.

                 

                I'll say that, for me, the 400s and 600s were much easier than today's 800s. The shorter relative recovery makes for more challenge, at least for me.

                 

                You can click on my training log to look at the interval workouts I've done if you are curious.

                 

                It seems to me that you had a succesful workout, and I totally sympathize with your confusion on HR, pacing, etc. I, too, am using a faster 5k pace than equivalent marathon pace goal, as my marathon paces simply are not yet equivalent (at all) to my shorter distance races. I am hoping that Hansons helps that a bit, but time will tell!

                PRs: 10k 57:30, HM 2:11:12, Full 5:02:57

                Next Up: HM 1/6/13 & Marathon #3 3/24/13

                Training Plan Right Now: Hansons Brothers Beginner Marathon Plan

                  PUT THE HR MONITOR DOWN. I know its hard to do as I'm a HR monitor guy too.

                   

                  You two need to look at the HR data form one of your hardest effort races and see how high the HR was in the first 040-800 meters. I'm betting its not as high as you think it is. Remember that during that race, your HR was probably elevated from the beginning due to the adrenaline rush of standing at the line awaiting the gun to run.

                   

                  In my opinion, use the HR monitor to look back at yout workout and not to workout by it. Do the Hansons a favor and give thrit program the attention it and they deserve by following it and not doing some sort of hybrid. They worked at it, tested and tweaked it to get it where it is today. If you fail in your marathon attempt and say you were doing the Hanson Method, you are not doing them any justice at all.

                   

                  The pain that hurts the worse is the imagined pain. One of the most difficult arts of racing is learning to ignore the imagined pain and just live with the present pain (which is always bearable.) - Jeff

                   

                  2014 Goals:

                   

                  Stay healthy

                  Enjoy life

                   


                  RunsWithDog

                    PUT THE HR MONITOR DOWN. I know its hard to do as I'm a HR monitor guy too.

                     

                    You two need to look at the HR data form one of your hardest effort races and see how high the HR was in the first 040-800 meters. I'm betting its not as high as you think it is. Remember that during that race, your HR was probably elevated from the beginning due to the adrenaline rush of standing at the line awaiting the gun to run.

                     

                    In my opinion, use the HR monitor to look back at yout workout and not to workout by it. Do the Hansons a favor and give thrit program the attention it and they deserve by following it and not doing some sort of hybrid. They worked at it, tested and tweaked it to get it where it is today. If you fail in your marathon attempt and say you were doing the Hanson Method, you are not doing them any justice at all.

                     

                    Blush

                     

                    LOL, please don't take away my HR monitor. I just got a new one after 6 months of data-deficit!! Smile I love my data. I need my data. Running is a healthy outlet for my sub-clinical OCD, lol.

                     

                    Don't you worry, though, I plan to follow Hansons. My HR data chaos-worry-nonsense is really only in my own head, and has little to no impact on my training in the long term. I surely won't be adjusting paces upwards for my marathon pace or my 5k pace, and those are the only key paces for the Hansons plan, actually. (The only way I'd consider adjusting them faster would be based on actual race data, which will be sparse!)

                     

                    I am playing around with my HR stuff right now for no particular reason other than my intellectual curiosity -- as when I had HR data a year ago, my HR was SO MUCH higher for comparable race pace, etc, and so my mind is just having difficulty wrapping around the change - and I am questioning myself whether I have gotten lazy (too used to easy running) and thus I have more capacity for speed than I'd like to admit, or if there is some other change that explains for my seemingly reduced tolerance for long workouts at high HR. Anyway, I will be playing around with it for another couple weeks -- but not on Hansons workouts. This is my last week of freedom (week 5 - unstructured in Hansons Beginner) so I am going to do one more HM pace test run Thursday, but after that, I'll be hitting Hansons very carefully as soon as the structured runs officially begin for me next week. I am a plan follower, lol. Unless it doesn't work for me, I'll be following it very closely to the best of my ability. And, since I've been testing out the elements these base building weeks, I do believe it'll work for me just fine. I am excited about giving it a solid try.

                    PRs: 10k 57:30, HM 2:11:12, Full 5:02:57

                    Next Up: HM 1/6/13 & Marathon #3 3/24/13

                    Training Plan Right Now: Hansons Brothers Beginner Marathon Plan

                      PUT THE HR MONITOR DOWN. I know its hard to do as I'm a HR monitor guy too.

                       

                      You two need to look at the HR data form one of your hardest effort races and see how high the HR was in the first 040-800 meters. I'm betting its not as high as you think it is. Remember that during that race, your HR was probably elevated from the beginning due to the adrenaline rush of standing at the line awaiting the gun to run.

                       

                      In my opinion, use the HR monitor to look back at yout workout and not to workout by it. Do the Hansons a favor and give thrit program the attention it and they deserve by following it and not doing some sort of hybrid. They worked at it, tested and tweaked it to get it where it is today. If you fail in your marathon attempt and say you were doing the Hanson Method, you are not doing them any justice at all.

                       

                      LOL as well.  Not sure where you got the idea that I thought my HR would be 95% in the first 400 - 800 meters of a high effort race.  My PR 5K is actually a complete shocker to me because I actually had a lower avg HR on it than in some of my 10Ks and even a 15K.  I'm looking at my HR toward the end of the interval set and expecting it to be in the 90 - 95% range that was indicated in the training plan.  That's exactly where it was.  Part of the reason I posted this in the first place was to see if I could get some kind of input on ways to help me run at a specfic pace runnning by myself off a track.  I actually was attempting to run a 7:20 pace on my intervals, I just ran them faster than that.  The second reason I posted was to see if people would give me input on whether I did actually run them too fast.

                       

                      My only time that I use the HR monitor to work out by is when I'm sticking to MAF or 70% of my max HR as part of an easy run.  Even then I tend to not do a very good job at it and often let it rise a bit too much.

                       

                      I'm following Hanson's plan starting the first week in January and will be running the paces recommended for a 3:50 goal marathon time and using my current 5K time for the speed workouts.  The only time I'm going to adjust my paces is if based on my HR feedback, it tells me that my workouts are all too easy.  And that will only be based on if the HR feedback keeps that up for several weeks, not just one or two workouts.

                       

                      Just like your MP tempo run on the treadmill the other day.  If I ran a MP Tempo run at 70% of my max HR for several weeks in a row, I would adjust my goal marathon time down to a faster level and start working out based on that new pace.  Just one workout and I would just consider it a fluke and not change my entire plan on it.  With that said, I probably wouldn't do that based on a treadmill workout since I won't be running my marathon on a treadmill and for some reason right now I'm able to run almost 30 seconds faster per mile at the same HR on the treadmill than outside. 

                      Age: 46 Weight: 205 Height: 6'2" (Goal weight 195)

                      Current PR's:  Mara 3:48:09; HM 1:43:26; 10K 43:59; 5K 21:27

                        Better yet guys, why not race a 5 or 10k a couple weeks into the program and use the results to adjust paces up or down according to your current fitness? Thats perfectly acceptable to the Hanson's although I think they'd prefer you not to race alot.

                         

                        The pain that hurts the worse is the imagined pain. One of the most difficult arts of racing is learning to ignore the imagined pain and just live with the present pain (which is always bearable.) - Jeff

                         

                        2014 Goals:

                         

                        Stay healthy

                        Enjoy life

                         

                          Better yet guys, why not race a 5 or 10k a couple weeks into the program and use the results to adjust paces up or down according to your current fitness? Thats perfectly acceptable to the Hanson's although I think they'd prefer you not to race alot.

                           

                          I would already need to adjust down to a 3:40 goal based on my PR 5K back in October.  That just seems scary fast to me for my first marathon so that's why I kept it at 3:50.  That, plus the 1:54 finish on my most recent half marathon on a warm windy day on a very tough course in November.

                          Age: 46 Weight: 205 Height: 6'2" (Goal weight 195)

                          Current PR's:  Mara 3:48:09; HM 1:43:26; 10K 43:59; 5K 21:27


                          And in the end...

                            I would already need to adjust down to a 3:40 goal based on my PR 5K back in October.  That just seems scary fast to me for my first marathon so that's why I kept it at 3:50.  That, plus the 1:54 finish on my most recent half marathon on a warm windy day on a very tough course in November.

                             

                            He is suggesting that you run a race to reset your training paces, not your marathon goal.

                            ------------------------

                            The GITM is moot.

                              He is suggesting that you run a race to reset your training paces, not your marathon goal.

                               

                              The Hanson plan has specific training paces for several of their runs based on your goal so I think that is exactly what he was suggesting.

                               

                              2 of the workouts each week have a specific pace based on your marathon goal time, a marathon paced tempo run and their long run which is at Marathon Pace plus 45 seconds.  Later on in the plan even the interval work is done based on that marathon goal pace -10 or 15 seconds.

                               

                              Setting a marathon goal based on a 5K might not be the best thing however and that's why I haven't adjusted my goal time down to 3:40 based on my latest 5K although secretly I think I might be able to swing a 3:45 if the weather is perfect and I'm able to really nail the training plan without any hiccups due to sickness or injury.  That's probably another reason not to push the intervals like I did this morning, would be pretty sad to end up with an injury before I even got started on the plan.

                              Age: 46 Weight: 205 Height: 6'2" (Goal weight 195)

                              Current PR's:  Mara 3:48:09; HM 1:43:26; 10K 43:59; 5K 21:27

                              Venomized


                              Drink up moho's!!

                                Trying to predict a marathon off of a 5K time is nearly impossible, if not completely impossible.  Its hard enough to predict off of a half marathon to begin with.