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Intervals are hard and 800's are the worst! (Read 418 times)

    Just a reaction to the thread title.  I think 1000s are the absolute worst.  They are 200m too long, just dragging out the suffering of what should have been half a mile.

     

    Now back to you guys and your more serious discussion.

     

    Thanks for the confidence boost.  Next Tuesday's workout is 5 X 1,000m @ 5K pace with 500m recoveries.  I think I'm going to go based on my current 5K pace though, at least the projected pace based on my latest 10K race which is a 7:10 pace.  The awesome thing about it is that I will be doing it at altitude in much cooler weather.  I'm going to guess those are going to offset each other as it will only be about a 2,000' gain in elevation and should be at least 20 degrees cooler.

    Age: 46 Weight: 200 Height: 6'2" (Goal weight 195)

    Current PR's:  Mara 3:48:09; HM 1:43:26; 10K 43:59; 5K 21:27


    MoBramExam

      I find the different interval distances invaluable.  Be it 1000m or 5:00 minutes, the common focus is mentally spreading the effort over the distance.  Always liked the 5 x 1000 workout because you can visualize running a 5K during the workout.  First one should feel like the start of a race, last one the finish of a race, and all segments in between.  The actual pace may be a tad slower than a real race because you are not typically race rested and in a race enviorment, but the effort feels the same.  Most race like they train.  Watch the folks who start their interval workouts all-out from the first rep.  They are the ones leading the pack at 200 meters...just before they fall out the back.  These workouts really hardwire pacing skills.

       



        I'm training for a half and while the wheels fell off a bit there I am starting back up. I did 1000s yesterday. 6 of them at 10k pace with recovery in between.

         

        I don't know why but I found them easier to deal with than I thought I would - actually, maybe it's because of where I did them. When I did the 800s and the 1000s earlier in the training plan I did them at the track close to my house. For the 800s it was great. For the 1000s less so (it's old and unmarked and while figuring out two loops is easy enough to do, 2.5 not so much). So what I did yesterday was find a stretch of road a little longer than 1 km. I live in a big city so I tried to find one (a) that wasn't too busy and (b) kinda flat.

         

        I ran 2 km to get there, did my intervals (and then bitched about the 2 km back) and the interval part was great. There were lights at both ends of the straight road and you could see the end from start to finish (pretty much anyway).

         

        I think those 5:00 min intervals would kill me though for not knowing where the end is.

        First or last...it's the same finish line

        HF #4362

           1Ks at CV pace (which is about 36 minute race pace) is a staple workout under Tinman.

           

          Tom, oh, well in that case they're pretty easy.  Wink   I usually run them at 5k pace or a little faster if I can muster it.

          - Joe

          We are fragile creatures on collision with our judgment day.


          Feeling the growl again

             

            Tom, oh, well in that case they're pretty easy.  Wink   I usually run them at 5k pace or a little faster if I can muster it.

             

            Both valid workouts serving different purposes.  But very different.

            "If you want to be a bad a$s, then do what a bad a$s does.  There's your pep talk for today.  Go Run." -- Slo_Hand

             

            MJ5


            Chief Unicorn Officer

              I love 1000's!

               

              Spaniel pretty much covered this, but just to echo...there's a reason that certain workouts call for certain paces.  Be them 200m intervals or 1000m intervals, a workout is always intended to work a specific system in your body.  If you do them too fast, you're not going to get the intended benefit (conversely, if you do them too slow, same thing).  When I do a workout I think of it like a game, where the goal is to come as close as I can to my target pace and be as consistent as possible.  There are many, many times I know I could do the workout faster.  But I know that's not the point, so I make it a game to just be as on target as I can to my goal interval pace/time.

              Mile 5:49 - 5K 19:58 - 10K 43:06 - HM 1:36:54


              Feeling the growl again

                I love 1000's!

                 

                Spaniel pretty much covered this, but just to echo...there's a reason that certain workouts call for certain paces.  

                 

                Click.

                "If you want to be a bad a$s, then do what a bad a$s does.  There's your pep talk for today.  Go Run." -- Slo_Hand

                 

                MJ5


                Chief Unicorn Officer

                  Mile 5:49 - 5K 19:58 - 10K 43:06 - HM 1:36:54

                    I like how Jeff and Spaniel cover the basics of interval running.  Spaniel does it with the physcial focus, and Jeff  with the mental focus.  Incorporate what those two say, and you'll have it covered.

                     

                    I can't speak to the physical side of things because, frankly, I don't care.  I just let my coach work out my paces for me, and I'm thankful that I have the luxury to do that right now.

                     

                    But I can speak about the mental side of things.  Like Jeff, I've had two good XC/track coaches throughout high school and college, and they taught me similar things to what Jeff was taught.  One thing my high school coach taught me was that you'll always have something left at the end of the race, and that runners can always dig deeper.  My college coach taught me to break things down into manageable chunks--just like Jeff's first XC coach.  But it wasn't just breaking things down into splits, it was breaking things down to minutes or landmarks.  The next corner, 2 more minutes of hurt, the next lamppost, or catch the next guy are things you can think about.

                     

                    Combine those two things:  belief that there will always be something left and breaking things down into manageable chunks.  I've done it for a long time.  I'm constantly telling myself that (if I'm doing an 800) I can make it through 400m without a problem.  Then I push to 600m at pace because, in the back of my mind, I know I can cover that last 200m at the pace I need to because I remember that I can always dig deeper at the end.  It's something you can do for all lengths of intervals.  It will take practice, but it should build your confidence and concentration like Jeff said.

                     

                    Build that confidence and concentration while you're doing your intervals, and when race time comes, it will be second nature.  The race won't be easy, of course, but you'll be ready for it.

                    There was a point in my life when I ran. Now, I just run.

                     

                    Well, fuckers

                    He still stands

                     

                    The Diary of a Once-ran.

                      good stuff abe!

                        Thanks very much for the input everyone.

                         

                        I'll try to take all this into account when I run my 5 X 1,000m intervals next week.

                        Age: 46 Weight: 200 Height: 6'2" (Goal weight 195)

                        Current PR's:  Mara 3:48:09; HM 1:43:26; 10K 43:59; 5K 21:27

                          I like how Jeff and Spaniel cover the basics of interval running.  Spaniel does it with the physical focus, and Jeff  with the mental focus.  Incorporate what those two say, and you'll have it covered.

                          +1  Ham-and-egg ... despite the occasional real-life oil-and-water.

                           

                          I'm constantly telling myself that (if I'm doing an 800) I can make it through 400m without a problem.  Then I push to 600m at pace because, in the back of my mind, I know I can cover that last 200m at the pace I need to because I remember that I can always dig deeper at the end.  It's something you can do for all lengths of intervals.

                          +1.  Personally, I was a bit nerdy at the beginning, checking split times at 200, 400 and 600.  I found I slowed a smidge in the second 200m, so I worked on feeling like I was pressing slightly to hold pace there.  And yes to bearing down over the 400-600 segment -- it's like the third lap of a mile in the way pace can slip if you're not focused.

                          “Everything you need is already inside.” -- Bill Bowerman

                            Well, I finally got back around to 6 X 800m intervals this morning.

                             

                            Tried to take into account everyone's input.  Went into it with a positive attitude and set my target pace at my current 5K fitness level, shooting for 7:10 pace on the fast intervals.  Was a tiny bit nicer weather this morning vs. the last time I ran these (73 degrees and 71% humidity today vs. 74 degrees and 79% humidity last time) but not enough to make much of a difference I don't think. .  Felt like I nailed it, although that last one was pretty close to race effort, I wanted to hammer that last one and started out WAY too fast on the first 200m (6:30ish pace) and then slowed it down and held on.

                             

                            Here's my splits:  I left the Fast intervals split into 400's because I was pretty happy with the fact that I ran them pretty comparable for me.  Generally within a second or two of each other except for that last one that I messed up on at the start.

                             

                            <colgroup><col width="34" /> <col width="64" /> <col width="60" /> <col width="55" /> <col width="64" /> <col width="38" /> <col width="47" /> <col width="50" /> <col width="64" /> </colgroup>
                            Splits (GPS Interval)
                             
                            Type
                            Distance  Duration Total Duration Pace Avg HR Max HR Notes
                            1 Manual 2.00 mi 19:04.9 19:04.9 9:32 135 146 Warmup
                            2 Manual 0.25 mi 01:47.3 20:52.2 7:10 157 168 1 a - Fast
                            2 Manual 0.25 mi 01:48.2 22:40.4 7:13 168 170 1 b - Fast
                            3 Manual 0.25 mi 02:23.9 25:04.3 9:36 154 170 Recovery
                            4 Manual 0.25 mi 01:46.4 26:50.7 7:06 160 170 2 a - Fast
                            4 Manual 0.25 mi 01:47.3 28:38.0 7:10 171 174 2 b - Fast
                            5 Manual 0.25 mi 02:25.9 31:04.0 9:44 157 175 Recovery
                            6 Manual 0.25 mi 01:48.6 32:52.5 7:15 164 173 3 a - Fast
                            6 Manual 0.25 mi 01:46.1 34:38.7 7:05 175 178 3 b - Fast
                            7 Manual 0.25 mi 02:31.0 37:09.7 10:04 160 178 Recovery
                            8 Manual 0.25 mi 01:45.0 38:54.6 7:00 166 177 4 a - Fast
                            8 Manual 0.25 mi 01:46.7 40:41.3 7:07 179 181 4 b - Fast
                            9 Manual 0.25 mi 02:24.3 43:05.6 9:38 165 181 Recovery
                            10 Manual 0.25 mi 01:47.2 44:52.8 7:09 171 179 5 a - Fast
                            10 Manual 0.25 mi 01:48.4 46:41.2 7:14 180 183 5 b - Fast
                            11 Manual 0.25 mi 02:32.5 49:13.7 10:10 167 184 Recovery
                            12 Manual 0.25 mi 01:43.0 50:56.7 6:52 175 183 6 a - Fast
                            12 Manual 0.25 mi 01:46.7 52:43.4 7:07 184 187 6 b - Fast
                            13 Manual 1.79 mi 17:16.6 1:10:00 9:39 166 187 Cooldown

                             

                            For sure there are good days and bad days in running.  This was a good day.

                            Age: 46 Weight: 200 Height: 6'2" (Goal weight 195)

                            Current PR's:  Mara 3:48:09; HM 1:43:26; 10K 43:59; 5K 21:27

                            DollarBill


                              Interesting discussion.

                               

                              One "trick" that I do is once the target time (range) for the interval is established, I calculate what my time should be at 100, 200, and then 400.  I check my watch at each of those, especially the 100 and 200 that gives me a "sense" and a "feeling" for what the interval should be run at.  I can then usually lock into that appropriate pace range.  I then check at each 400 thereafter.

                               

                              I figured waiting until the first 200 or 400 would be too late if I was going too fast.  This has worked for me in the past.

                                Okay, I think I might have figured out how to get better at running intervals.....

                                 

                                Run them more often!

                                 

                                Had a really good set of 1,000m intervals this morning.  Probably ended up pushing them a bit too hard, was targeting 10K goal pace, but ended up doing them faster than that.  Amazing at how bad I struggled on the 6 X 800's barely a month ago and how well I seemed to do on these this morning.  The first 3 felt really good, 4th and 5th were tougher, but I pushed them a little faster too.

                                 

                                <colgroup><col width="34" /> <col width="64" /> <col width="60" /> <col width="55" /> <col width="64" /> <col width="56" /> <col width="47" /> <col width="50" /> <col width="76" /> </colgroup>
                                Splits (GPS Interval)
                                 
                                Type
                                Distance  Duration Total Duration Pace Avg HR Max HR Notes
                                1 Slow 3.0 km 17:49.1 17:49.1 09:34.8       133 151 Warmup
                                2 Fast 1.0 km 04:21.3 22:10.4 07:01.5       167 175 1st Interval
                                3 Slow 0.5 km 03:01.3 25:11.7 09:44.8       152 173 Recovery
                                4 Fast 1.0 km 04:21.2 29:33.0 07:01.3       170 177 2nd Interval
                                5 Slow 0.5 km 03:06.0 32:39:00 10:00.0       154 176 Recovery
                                6 Fast 1.0 km 04:21.4 37:00.4 07:01.6       171 179 3rd Interval
                                7 Slow 0.5 km 03:06.7 40:07.1 10:02.2       161 179 Recovery
                                8 Fast 1.0 km 04:16.6 44:23.7 06:53.9       176 185 4th Interval
                                9 Slow 0.5 km 03:05.6 47:29.3 09:58.6       164 186 Recovery
                                10 Fast 1.0 km 04:17.9 51:47.2 06:56.0       180 189 5th Inverval
                                11 Slow 1.52 km 09:07.8 1:00:55 09:41.5       163 188 Cooldown

                                 

                                Will be interesting to see if this will translate into a good race coming up in 3 weeks!

                                 

                                Thanks again for the input and advice.

                                Age: 46 Weight: 200 Height: 6'2" (Goal weight 195)

                                Current PR's:  Mara 3:48:09; HM 1:43:26; 10K 43:59; 5K 21:27

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