How much is it realistic to improve? (Read 3326 times)

    Might be that you could benefit by running a few minutes barefoot at the beach, just as a way to mix things up.  But right at this moment, you are better off with more consistent training, like running most/all days, and a little more volume.  If your mileage creeps up to 50 km/week and stays consistent, I think you would see a huge benefit.  Ice your knee after each run and check your shoes for abnormal wear.  If your physio suggests stretching and strengthening exercises, do them.

    2013 H1:  7 hours/week base.  Q3: Train for goal race.  Q4:  Goal Race.

      Thanks....just wondering, what is the significance of abnormal wear on the shoes? I tend to wear shoes out first on the outside edge (where the little toe is) and spreading up and inwards from there. Does that mean anything?

        Shoe wear:  you supinate (under-pronate).  If you choose to wear shoes, make sure that they are appropriate for your gait.  It could just be that you need shoes with more cushioning and flexibility, because supination increases (relative to a neutral stride) the amount of shock that gets transmitted with each footfall.  It is something that will perhaps moderate over time as your running economy improves.  For now, it may be a simple as getting a new or different pair of shoes.  Talk to your physio and/or the shoe experts at your local running shop.

        2013 H1:  7 hours/week base.  Q3: Train for goal race.  Q4:  Goal Race.

          Thanks....just wondering, what is the significance of abnormal wear on the shoes? I tend to wear shoes out first on the outside edge (where the little toe is) and spreading up and inwards from there. Does that mean anything?

           

          Shoe wear:  you supinate (under-pronate).  If you choose to wear shoes, make sure that they are appropriate for your gait.  It could just be that you need shoes with more cushioning and flexibility, because supination increases (relative to a neutral stride) the amount of shock that gets transmitted with each footfall.  It is something that will perhaps moderate over time as your running economy improves.  For now, it may be a simple as getting a new or different pair of shoes.  Talk to your physio and/or the shoe experts at your local running shop.

           

          No, no, no!!  Not necessarily!!!  Everybody wants to write down a line or two or a single paragraph and get a quick diagnosis.  If that's what it takes, you really don't need professionals or doctors or any of those people, do we?  If that's suffice you, fine.  But more often than not, misinformation leads to more problems.  For shoe wear, the best, and the least we need to do, is to add actual image of the shoe wear.  Most people can't quite articulate the visual--worst yet to articulate symptoms of injuries--and misdiagnosis more often than not lead you to more problems.  

           

          First of all, I would NOT classify "under-pronate" as the same as "supinate".  It is in fact a weird term to say "under-pronate" at all.  In fact, I don't know where you get the information but I wouldn't buy any of what you said about supination--that you need more cushioning or flexibility or "because supination increases the amount of shock".  I'll bet there's NO study indicating such claim.  The "shock" is more to do with form (and weight to a degree) and whether or not you supinate or pronate has NOTHING to do with the amount of shock.  Torque, yes; but not shock.  Someone who supinates seems to have more to do with the structural issue and, if that's the case, picking up more cushioned shoes is actually one of the worst things you can do--you're simply giving more room to roll over!!

           

          But more importantly, outsole shoe wear (which I'm ASSUMING the OP is talking about when she says "significant and abnormal" wear) does not usually tell whether or not you pronate or supinate.  Most people land on the outer edge of heel (well, I guess a lot of people today trying to run mid-foot landing, it may not be as much of a case any more...).  That does NOT indicate that you're pronating or, worse yet, leaning backwards.  It simply indicates that there's more friction going on there.  Many people, particularly if they are slow or never lift their knees appropriately high, tend to DRAG their feet low; consequently they DRAG the outer edge of the shoes even before the foot crosses over the Center of Gravity and move slightly ahead of your C of G; hence, excess wear EXACTLY where the OP is talking about.  Now it MAY NOT be the case either.  Seilerts may be actually absolutely correct and she's supinating.  Frankly, I actually doubt it.  It is actually the MID-SOLE wear that's more important to determine whether or not you supinate or pronate.  From the way OP explains, we have no way of knowing what's going on with the mid-sole.

           

          Incidentally, from a quick glance at the Profile picture, Seilerts seem to slightly supinate.  I don't know if that's the reason why he went on to detail to explain supination but, it seems to me actually, it is simply because of the wrong shoes.  It's either too narrow for him or too straight for him.  In such case, it is NOT the runner who pronates or supinates; but the shoe.  Most people have NO idea how to pick the right shoes for them.  The only thing (or I should say, in most cases) they base on their picking shoes is whether the shoe has plenty of cushion or not, stability or neutral.  Very few people are talking about the SHAPE of the shoe vs. the shape of the foot.  There are tons of gimmicks on shoes today but, if the shape of the shoe doesn't fit your foot, all the gimmicks in the world is not going to do you any good.  In fact, in most cases (again, not all), the shoe needs all those gimmicks BECAUSE the shape doesn't fit.  I am not a barefoot runner, although I'd agree with most of the arguments.  Instead, I believe all these barefoot fad had developed BECAUSE most people are wearing wrong shoes.  

           

          If you are suffering from over-prination or over-supination, simply getting "different pair of shoes" is not going to solve anything--it's the same as all those wrong training; it's a crap-shooting approach.  You have to identify the cause of an issue--if it IS in fact a problem--and understand what's going to fix that cause.  I'm sorry if I come out too blunt (I have been criticized with this many times before) but this is exactly how wrong information spreads and more people are suffering from things that they don't need to.

            Nobby -- lots of respect, and I don't know why you think I'm a troll to write such a treatise, but note my final words, "Talk to your physio and/or the shoe experts at your local running shop."  It may be the shoes, or something else.  It is just one of many factors but perhaps the easiest one to address if there is something obvious to a well-trained eye.  One of the reasons that I have been running more often than not for the past 10 years, rather than quitting after the first two, was due to talking to an expert at my local running store, who both evaluated my stride on a treadmill AND listened to me about the nagging aches and pains that I kept having. 

             

            We being on the other side of the world can make suggestions but it is up to the original poster to seek professional advice locally, running shoes in hand.  At least she'll know what questions to ask now.

            2013 H1:  7 hours/week base.  Q3: Train for goal race.  Q4:  Goal Race.

              Nobby -- lots of respect, and I don't know why you think I'm a troll to write such a treatise, but note my final words, "Talk to your physio and/or the shoe experts at your local running shop."  It may be the shoes, or something else.  It is just one of many factors but perhaps the easiest one to address if there is something obvious to a well-trained eye.  One of the reasons that I have been running more often than not for the past 10 years, rather than quitting after the first two, was due to talking to an expert at my local running store, who both evaluated my stride on a treadmill AND listened to me about the nagging aches and pains that I kept having. 

               

              We being on the other side of the world can make suggestions but it is up to the original poster to seek professional advice locally, running shoes in hand.  At least she'll know what questions to ask now.

              Oh, no, no no!!!  I didn't mean to call you a troll at all!!  Man, it must be the way I come across then...!  I totally understand that you have every intention to "help" OP.  And I also understand that I'm probably the odd school as well.  I don't necessarily agree with many of so-called professionals, be it physio or running shop people.  But I also understand that I had been saying about minimalist shoes since 1980s and people looked at me as if I'm a foreigner!!  Well, look at the fad that's going on right now.  ASICS invited this well-known podiatrist about 10 years ago and had a clinic.  Someone asked him about the view of Arthur Lydiard (minimalist shoes) and he just scoffed at him and said, "Well, consider the source..."  Well, now they had come up with 33-series and about a half of their shoe line are minimalist type shoes.  That of course has been probably driven by Nike Free which, by the way, I found out in April that Lydiard was a big force behind its development through Geoff Hollister.  But still many of basic concepts practiced by many physio people and running store people are from old school.  So in a way, I wouldn't blame them...or you.

                ASICS invited this well-known podiatrist about 10 years ago and had a clinic.  Someone asked him about the view of Arthur Lydiard (minimalist shoes) and he just scoffed at him and said, "Well, consider the source..." 

                 

                I assume he meant "consider the source" to be condescending or derogatory, but that's certainly not what I think when I consider Lydiard's views. Just the opposite.

                 

                I'm actually surprised at how often I have encountered doctors, physician assistants, physical therapists who can't have an intelligent conversation with me about recent research because they don't keep up with it. When I'm bringing more current knowledge to the conversation than my doctor, I know it's time to find a new doctor.

                  Well, i have to say you lost me on some of the technical stuff there. What I can tell you, is that I run in Brooks Dyad 6.0's, which I'm now on my second pair.  These were recommended by a specialised shoe clinic, who had me run over a fancy mat and took a video of me running in the shoes on the treadmill.  I went through that whole process both times I bought new shoes, and they recommended the same shoes both times.  My new shoes are about two months old and already have some wear on them.  I've attached a photo of both pairs (assuming it works!) in case it's of any use or interest to anyone.  :-)

                   

                  For some good news, I managed a 12km run this morning without any significant knee pain.  That makes me hopeful that I can keep up with the training schedule for the half in October, so I'm happy!

                      I think I see the problem. Your shoes are upside down. Smile


                      day after day sameness

                        Goodness Samantha -- looking at the wear on them, those shoes better have 700 - 1000Km on them to have worn away the the forefoot like that.  Either that, or you have do "the twist" a lot on your toe off.

                        Choosing my words carefully has never been my strength I've been known to be vague and often pointless

                          Thanks dennrunner.  I'll try them the other way up next time I run and see if it makes any difference. :P

                           

                          MilkTruck, I'd (very roughly) estimate maybe 400km at most for the top pair.  A much more accurate estimate for the new pair would be 230km.

                            Wow!  IMHO the top pair were worn way too long and the bottom pair are at end of life.  What is the make/model of those shoes?  {Nobby -- what do you think???}

                             

                            By the way, you can track shoe mileage with your workouts.  You could, for example, add the bottom pair under the Training Log -> New Equipment tab with initial mileage of 240 km. 

                            2013 H1:  7 hours/week base.  Q3: Train for goal race.  Q4:  Goal Race.

                              The shoes are Brooks Dyad 6.0.  How many Ks are you supposed to get out of shoes?  I really can't afford to replace them every two months!!

                                The shoes are Brooks Dyad 6.0.  How many Ks are you supposed to get out of shoes?  I really can't afford to replace them every two months!!

                                 

                                Maybe 500km, but some shoes seem to last better than others - it also depends on the surfaces you run on and your particular running style.

                                 

                                I find that older shoes can be fine for easy runs.