Road to Improvement Swimming vs. Running (Read 1599 times)

Kick often. Not to fast. Mostly with the hips. Actually when you are swimming for long distance you are not supposed to kick much. The legs are big muscles and use a lot of energy and kicking is not the main source of thrust. Kick just hard enough to keep your feet from dragging. You want to be level with the surface to be streamlined.

Can some of the other competitive swimmers comment on this? I've heard triathletes talk about saving leg strength by not kicking hard, but I'd like to know what is the perspective of competitive swimmers on kicking over long distance? A few with whom I've talked in the past, say they just always kick b/c it is how they swim. I know that my kick slacks off when I'm just swimming many laps, but I kick like hell when I sprint -- not a conscious decision, that is just what happens. I've been assuming it is just laziness on my part for the longer swims.

I've been reading this thread with interest - and when some of you swimming studs get a chance, I'd like to hear your views on how swimming has impacted your running. I just bought a house in a nice neighborhood with a great pool ... but the pool's only open May to September. I figured I might get into swimming next summer ... but mainly to improve my running. I'll never be a real swimmer. Which probably means I wear an iPod when I swim. But I digress. Does it help your running? Any particular kind of swimming that makes your running faster?

Can some of the other competitive swimmers comment on this? I've heard triathletes talk about saving leg strength by not kicking hard, but I'd like to know what is the perspective of competitive swimmers on kicking over long distance? A few with whom I've talked in the past, say they just always kick b/c it is how they swim. I know that my kick slacks off when I'm just swimming many laps, but I kick like hell when I sprint -- not a conscious decision, that is just what happens. I've been assuming it is just laziness on my part for the longer swims.

My experience is consistent with protoplasm's comments. This especially, is key: "the legs are big muscles and use a lot of enery and kicking is not the main source of thrust." Without getting too far into the physiology of it, kicking hard puts you into oxygen debt fairly quickly...at least it does for me. When I did longer races, I didn't kick hard until I could afford to go into oxygen debt...somewhere around the last 100 yards, regardless of the race distance. Maybe elite swimmers can kick harder sooner. I'd be interested to know that.

I've been reading this thread with interest - and when some of you swimming studs get a chance, I'd like to hear your views on how swimming has impacted your running. I just bought a house in a nice neighborhood with a great pool ... but the pool's only open May to September. I figured I might get into swimming next summer ... but mainly to improve my running. I'll never be a real swimmer. Which probably means I wear an iPod when I swim. But I digress. Does it help your running? Any particular kind of swimming that makes your running faster?

I'd say swimming's impact on running is very specific to the individual. In general, running performance gets the most benefit from running training. However, an individual's running can benefit from swimming. Take this hypothetical situation as an example: a runner is training at a level that is right on the line between health and injury. That runner would not benefit from running more as he/she will cross the line into injury. But adding a swim will provide additional aerobic and or anaerobic stimulus and will likely not injure that person. So in general, run more until you risk injury, then add swimming. Simple right? Too bad it's so hard to tell how close we are to that line. One other thing swimming improves, and I'm not sure of the science behind it, is oxygen economy. When I do a lot of swimming, I feel like I can breathe bigger while running...if that makes any sense. I feel like I can consume more oxygen and my body is able to use it better. This is all based on feel and may be complete BS. One thing swimming forces you to do is breathe at very specific intervals. You can't just take a breath whenever you want (well you can, but make sure you get the lifeguard's attention first, and make sure they're filming if possible). Swimmers will do sets of breathing on fixed numbers of strokes (every 3rd/5th/7th/9th, etc.) Usually odd intervals as you breathe to both sides this way. Try swimming 100 yds breathing every 9th stroke. Hurts like a bitch. But then you get into a longer race and breathe every 5th or 3rd stroke, then do an underwater flip turn at every wall...your body doesn't freak out. Teach your body to do this...then go run. Breathing definitely feels different...more controlled (now re-read my last paragraph...probably makes a lot more sense). Ok...here's the only hard evidence I have to offer...but it's a specific performance, so it counts for something. My 5k PR came in the year I was starting to experiment with triathlons. It's a soft PR, but I would have said my fitness level, prior to that race, was 45-60 seconds slower. The performance was a complete surprise. I can't entirely credit swimming since I was doing a good amount of cycling at the time as well. But the combined effect of swimming and cycling on my running was much more than I imagined it would be. MTA: That race was 45 seconds faster than I ever ran in HS and I was running comparable mileage to my HS mileage...somewhere around 40-45 mpw. The miles I spent running were relatively quick, but I only did one speed (faster than tempo) workout prior to the 5k PR. In HS, I did 2 speed workouts per week. So adding the swimming and cycling on top of the base miles effectively replaced the speed workouts I'd done in running.

Great posts Mishka. I'll add one more thing. Swimming has made me more flexible, particularly in my ankles. Yes, it's hard to learn how to do well. I'm a sucky swimmer and probably always will be, but i made my biggest breakthrough when I realized that swimming was about keeping your body as long as possible and about gliding through the water. I agree that it is the best form of cross training. I think the runner's basic mentality is to think that propulsion comes from pulling as much water as possible, but the swimming motion is much more complicated, and my experience is that your body knows how to do it better than your brain. I also agree with Mishka that the discipline required when breathing is really weird and hard to get used to, but teaches you also that it is possible to relax when in oxygen debt: an important skill in running, too.

I've been reading this thread with interest - and when some of you swimming studs get a chance, I'd like to hear your views on how swimming has impacted your running. I just bought a house in a nice neighborhood with a great pool ... but the pool's only open May to September. I figured I might get into swimming next summer ... but mainly to improve my running. I'll never be a real swimmer. Which probably means I wear an iPod when I swim. But I digress. Does it help your running? Any particular kind of swimming that makes your running faster?

Caution: Side effects include developing a more horse like appearance. You don't want to become the next Micheal Phelps. As far as improving your running I would think just the toning of your upper body and possibly dropping some fat is going to help. I don't have any personal evidence of this as I was stud before I started swimming If you are talking about replacing running miles with swimming I wouldn't do it. If you just want to add swimming to the running you are already doing then yeah it's going to help some.

I also agree with Mishka that the discipline required when breathing is really weird and hard to get used to, but teaches you also that it is possible to relax when in oxygen debt: an important skill in running, too.

When I'm feeling the groove, I enjoy the oxygen debt and cycle in swimming in a way that is not like anything in running (for me). Also, years ago I picked up one exercise from another water polo player that I really enjoy -- sprint down underwater, then sprint back free -- I don't know why, but the adrenalin rush during the sprint back is really fun.

I've been reading this thread with interest - and when some of you swimming studs get a chance, I'd like to hear your views on how swimming has impacted your running. I just bought a house in a nice neighborhood with a great pool ... but the pool's only open May to September. I figured I might get into swimming next summer ... but mainly to improve my running. I'll never be a real swimmer. Which probably means I wear an iPod when I swim. But I digress. Does it help your running? Any particular kind of swimming that makes your running faster?

I've been swimming regularly since the beginning of the year (2-3 hours/week) and it has definitely helped my running. It's easy to explain. It used to be that when I was only running I would get injury prone when my mileage would reach 45 miles per week. That's about 6 hours of cardio a week. With swimming and some cycling added, I was able to reach about 10 hours of cardio total and top my running to about 40 miles a week with only three runs a week. I only concentrate on quality workouts, tempos and long runs usually and on the off days I swim which gets my legs off from the pounding while still getting a great cardio workout. I'm also sometimes doing two workouts a day. Practically, I've beaten my HM PB by 5 minutes just 3 months after I started swimming and I feel I could probably trim some more today.