On Wisconsin! (Read 2073 times)


Prince of Fatness

    This is how I read the results, from an outsider's perspective: a victory for moderation and against knee-jerk "throw them out" politics. Seems like this is the only way to understand the exit polls that show Obama beating Romney even though Walker was affirmed.

     

    Coming from a state in a similar situation (the difference, I think, is that Christie has not tried to undermine the union's powers as much as Walker has), I would agree with this.  Speaking to folks both in the public and private sector here in NJ I sense a question of who the unions are really fighting for.  I am not sure that the public union leaders really get the tough times that people are going through.  It's hard to cry foul to people who are being fouled and expect favorable results.  I won't argue whether that is right or wrong, just that the impression is there.

     

    But yeah, as Jeff said, this really doesn't have much of anything to do with the presidential election, or being a Democrat or Republican for that matter.  Romney takes NJ?  Now that would really shock me.

    Semi-retired.

      http://www.wisn.com/politics/wisconsin-politics/Walker-win-causes-Mich-group-to-halt-recall/-/10057500/14735522/-/nk3t8gz/-/index.html

       

      "The results in Wisconsin crystallized how difficult a task it is to recall a sitting governor, even when the unions and the Democratic Party play a significant role in the effort," spokesman Bruce Fealk said in a statement.

       

       

      I'm glad for Michigan. Ours was a waste of time and money.  Although, as a side note, the Dems did get 1 state senate seat picked up by slim margin (may yet have a recount of the recall if you can believe it).  That 1 seat tips the senate 17-16 in favor of the Dems. 

       

      All in all maybe Wisconsin lucked into a decent outcome.  Some slight check on the power of 1 party.  At least they have to make some effort at being bi-partisan.  But the voters have probably given the message that the state doesn't have to back off from the sacred cow of the public employee union.  So the Dems should be careful about trying too hard to protect the unions IMO. 

       



      In an infinite universe, the one thing sentient life cannot afford to have is a sense of proportion

      http://htwins.net/scale2/scale2.swf?bordercolor=white&fb_source=message

       

       

       

        I'm a teacher in Wisconsin, so I'm kind of upset Walker won.

         

        The real problem is we need a Democrat that can try to balance the budget and support collective bargaining rights.  Tom was just kind of a guy. He didn't really have any juice behind him.  It was like you were either voting for Walker, or voting against him.  It didn't feel like you were voting for someone who had a plan.

         

        I hated Walker when he was in Milwaukee because he cut the public workers budget big time.  This led to my city baseball league folding.

         

        Then he goes to the capital and totally destroys the teachers.

         

        Now school districts have to decide how they are going to pay the teachers.  If they go the way of the private sector, It's basically who pleases their boss.  I hope it's more about performance, but I've worked in the private sector.  Unless you are in a sales job and are paid by commission, a lot of bosses just pick favorites for a raise or advancement instead of judging objectively. 

         

         For now my pay is frozen until they figure out a way to reward the high performing teachers.  It sucks!  Maybe I should go into politics.


        Prince of Fatness

          Now school districts have to decide how they are going to pay the teachers.  If they go the way of the private sector, It's basically who pleases their boss.  I hope it's more about performance, but I've worked in the private sector.  Unless you are in a sales job and are paid by commission, a lot of bosses just pick favorites for a raise or advancement instead of judging objectively.

           

          You really think that it's all about favoritism in the private sector?

          You really think that none of the "pleasing the boss" stuff goes on in the public sector?

           

          When I got out of college my first job was in the public sector.  I lasted about three and a half years.  Why did I leave?  Because my salary was negotiated by the union, and no matter how hard I worked the guy sitting next to me made the same salary even if he sat with his thumb up his rear end.  The only way to get ahead was to get promoted, and that was dependent on when civil service tests were announced.  Things moved slow there.  As a matter of fact, I received a check for back pay for a promotion six months after I left.

           

          My wife works in a state run nursing facility.  Another facility is closing and her place is absorbing those people.  Many people in her place will get "bumped", because of people coming from the other place have seniority.  They will lose a lot of good nurses.  This has little to do with performance.  It's all about seniority.  Is that fair?

           

          My point is that office politics exist everywhere and working in a union environment has its advantages and disadvantages.

           

          My father was a high school teacher for 35 years.  As I said my wife works in the public sector.  So, I am not unsympathetic to your plight.  It's a messy situation and some tough decisions need to be made.  I hope that they are decisions that work for everyone and that things work out for you.  Good luck, seriously.

          Semi-retired.

            I really want good teachers to get good pay.

             

            A running friend of mine teaches 5th grade.  He's told me it's very hard to move to another school because it's almost impossible to get the same pay once you've been in a district a while.

             

            I don't know the answers but so much of the current system seems to violate the free enterprise system.  I realize it could be bad for kids if teachers were jumping around in mid-year.  But it just seems like (to a relatively uninformed person I admit) the current system isn't rewarding good teachers enough.  Or allowing schools to replace ineffective teachers. 

            In an infinite universe, the one thing sentient life cannot afford to have is a sense of proportion

            http://htwins.net/scale2/scale2.swf?bordercolor=white&fb_source=message

             

             

             

                   The big deal about Wisconsin was never collective bargaining.  The Big Deal was the reform that ends the practice of the government collecting union dues from public employee paychecks whether the employees agree with it or not.  You can make arguments about why or why not that practice is necessary and correct but the fact is that it's now GONE.  That's what the PS unions were fighting for but they didn't want to come right out and say it.  AFSCME has lost significant membership because of this.  Three shots at rolling back Walker's reforms - the Supreme Court justice race, the recall of various Republican Senate members, and now the recall of Walker.  All failed.  Interesting times we live in.

                1 republican senator appears to have lost though.  That would tip the slim balance.

                 

                But yeah... that's all that came out of 6 months of bitter fights and over $80,000,000 spent on the campaigns.  Not to mention the countless hours spent on both sides that could have been spent doing something useful like running. 

                In an infinite universe, the one thing sentient life cannot afford to have is a sense of proportion

                http://htwins.net/scale2/scale2.swf?bordercolor=white&fb_source=message

                 

                 

                 

                  And furthermore, each time one of you bumps this thread, I have that song running through my head all day.

                  Well at least someone here is making relevance to the subject.

                         The big deal about Wisconsin was never collective bargaining.  The Big Deal was the reform that ends the practice of the government collecting union dues from public employee paychecks whether the employees agree with it or not.  You can make arguments about why or why not that practice is necessary and correct but the fact is that it's now GONE.  That's what the PS unions were fighting for but they didn't want to come right out and say it.  AFSCME has lost significant membership because of this.  Three shots at rolling back Walker's reforms - the Supreme Court justice race, the recall of various Republican Senate members, and now the recall of Walker.  All failed.  Interesting times we live in.

                     

                    How the "big deal" gets defined pretty much is a matter of political ideology.