1

Am I doing my training runs too fast? (Read 310 times)

ckerr1999

I was wondering if someone might be able to look at my training log. I think I might still be doing my runs too fast. I did a Half Marathon in May in 1:54, so a 8:36 pace. I guess that would put my marathon pace at 9:00/mile. Most of my runs are between 9:00 and 9:30/mile. Granted they have been a little slower recently because of the heat and humidity. So am I treating all my runs as tempo runs? My weekly average # of miles is currently 30-40 miles. So for me the million dollar question is how do I drop my marathon pace from 9:00/mile to eventually 8:00/mile. Thanks

Not in MI anymore

Based on McMillan, a 1:54 half (which is actually 8:42 pace) converts to a 4:00 marathon (9:09). I am not sure how you came up with a marathon goal time of 3:30, does not seem to be any logic in that. The McMillan prediction is in fact optimistic, as the calculator is based on "proper" marathon training, which typically involves closer to 50-60 mpw, and typically over a longer period of time. Not sure if you are already on a formal plan, but my 2 cents is your best bet is to work in increasing your total mileage volume.

McMillan also suggests long run pace of 9:05-10:25 and tempo pace of 8:10-8:27. The LR pace is a big range as there are a lot of factors. But you should run them slowly enough that you are able to get through them without requiring extensive recovery afterwards, to allow you to maintain your total weekly mileage & get the most out of your speed workouts.

Good luck.

Dave

DaveP, I don't see anything about a 3:30 marathon.

Ckerr, your easy runs should feel easy.  That, however imprecise, is probably the best gauge.  A 9:30 may be easy one day, and another day it's a 10:00.  I see you have runs in both ranges, so maybe you are worrying needlessly.  Just don't run at a pace that begins to wear you down, or worse, causes injury.  Concentrate on developing a smooth, efficient, quiet stride and form during your easy runs.

Well at least someone here is making relevance to the subject.

Not in MI anymore

DaveP, I don't see anything about a 3:30 marathon.

Check his siggy.

Dave

Check his siggy.

Right.  Hmm.  But s/he is talking about a 9:00 pace.

Well at least someone here is making relevance to the subject.

I'm no expert or even close but it seems like you are running some of your training runs too fast to me.

You ran a 15 miler in mid April at a 8:40 pace and then ran a half marathon race in early May at an 8:36 pace.  Either it seems like you had a poor race or you were racing that 15 mile workout I would think.

Upcoming races: HURL Elkhorn 50K Trail Run - 8/1/15

Age: 47 Weight: 205 Height: 6'3" (Goal weight 195)

Current PR's:  Mara 3:48:09 (2013); HM 1:36:42 (2015); 10K 43:59 (2014); 5K 21:27 (2013)

ckerr1999

Thanks everyone. As you can see from my log I have been really struggling with my running lately. Been trying to break the 40 mile a week barrier now for 4 months. Was suppose to do a long run today, but with the heat and humidity today the temperature is in the low 90s. So instead of doing 13 miles, did a short 6 miles tonight. A ran a lot slower then usual to allow me to complete the run. 10:20/mile. Yes I agree the 3:30 marathon won't be happening this fall. I will be lucky to break 4:00 on my first marathon. Will need to run 12 miles tomorrow to hit the 40 mile a mark. Not going to happening when the temperature is 90F+

perryw

I am about 17 weeks out from my half with a predicted time of 1:53-ish based on my 25:12 5k time a month ago.

My Running Wizard plan has me doing long runs in the 10:35 pace range right now. My 8.5 mile run today was around 10:10 and felt easy for 90% of the time due to the low 70s temp and light drizzle.  I kept telling myself I needed to slow down but was never successful! RW has me running a lot slower than I am used to but I feel better doing it than I have on previous plans.

Right now, it has me doing the tempo runs, known as out-and-back, in the 9:50 range.  I'm not really supposed to be doing 9:00-9:30 runs until much later in the plan.  I think you probably are running a little fast right now, especially if you are feeling beat up.

msmrow

I just ran a 1:54 half this spring... 4 weeks prior I ran a full marathon off a peak of 60mpw in 4:28, both on flat courses with great weather.

Since that half I've been running 40-45mpw and I can tell my fitness has improved.  Goal for the next marathon is around 4:15 which will certainly be challenging for me and require focused training up until the race.  I plan to get up to around 60mpw this time but spend more training weeks in the 50s than I did last time around.

Unless your 1:54 was not really a full-out race effort, I don't see how you are going to run 4:00 on less than 40mpw.

Will need to run 12 miles tomorrow to hit the 40 mile a mark. Not going to happening when the temperature is 90F+

Have you tried sacrificing pace instead of mileage in the heat? I ran an 11 miler this week under similar conditions. I did run it on a trail with a lot of cover. My pace was slow in the 9:50s. But I feel I got a lot more benefit than I would have gotten from a 7 miler faster.

Fall  2013 Goals: Doable sub 22:00 5k; Challenging Sub 21:00 5k; Unlikely Sub 20:00 5k.

I think the McMillan calculator needs to be taken with a huge grain of salt if you are new to running, have never run a lot of mileage, and have only run a handful of races. If your log is accurate, you started running less than a year ago and have only had a couple of months where you were over 120 miles for the month. It's not clear to me at all that you are doing most of your training too fast--you just need to do more of it. Now if you're not able to complete runs then, yeah, slow down.

My first woefully under-trained marathon I think I averaged 8:25 per mile. My second, 18-months later, was 7:15 per mile. Over the next dozen or so years I lowered my PR marathon pace to under 6:28 per mile. Throughout all of that time my average easy run pace has really not changed  much--somewhere in the 7:20 to 8:20 range. Certainly closer to the 8:20 end in hot, humid weather.

Training in the heat sucks. It saps your will to live and makes everything way harder. It's really, really hard to increase mileage in this weather--I know as I'm trying to do that right now. I wouldn't draw too many conclusions based on training runs in this stuff. Get up early and do as much of your mileage before it gets too hot as you can and just grind it out.

The answer to your million dollar question is really simple: run more. How much? I dunno, you have to figure that out for yourself. The answer is different for each of us. But I suspect to get to where you can run 8:00 pace for 26.2 miles, you'll need to get to where 200 mile months are normal for you.

Runners run.

hectortrojan

Thanks everyone. As you can see from my log I have been really struggling with my running lately. Been trying to break the 40 mile a week barrier now for 4 months. Was suppose to do a long run today, but with the heat and humidity today the temperature is in the low 90s. So instead of doing 13 miles, did a short 6 miles tonight. A ran a lot slower then usual to allow me to complete the run. 10:20/mile. Yes I agree the 3:30 marathon won't be happening this fall. I will be lucky to break 4:00 on my first marathon. Will need to run 12 miles tomorrow to hit the 40 mile a mark. Not going to happening when the temperature is 90F+

You have been running consistently for entire 2013. a week in march, tapering and recovery after race were your only easy weeks. It might be fatigue due to running a lot. I would take a week off.