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long run mileage jump (Read 2008 times)

Zortrium


    My current weekly long run is about 15.5 miles and heads out from my house about 6 miles to a wilderness preserve, then a couple of miles on the trails, then the 6 back to the house.  This has been working pretty well, but I'd like to (a) spend a greater percentage of my run on the trails than on the roads getting to them, and (b) do a particular 8 mile trail loop.  Doing this would mean bumping my long run to about 20 miles (no car and public transportation sucks).  Two questions:

     

    1. Is this a terrible idea without any intermediate distances (on 60-70 mpw)?  Also, my current long runs are already my longest ever runs, so anything beyond what I'm currently doing is 'unknown territory'.  That said, I'm not wiping myself out on my current long runs (e.g., last week I did a couple miles at HMP on the end of my long run and still felt good).

     

    2. I do basically all my runs first thing in the morning without breakfast beforehand and don't take in any calories during the run either (just water on the long ones).  This has never caused any problems as far as I can tell, but at some distance I imagine it's bound to.  Is attempting a 20 miler in this way also a terrible idea?

      Not a terrible idea. If you keep the pace easy you'll be fine. You've got the base to support it.

      Runners run.

        I've done the same - jump from 17 miles to 20 and run in the morning before eating breakfast.  I made that jump on a base of 50 MPW without problems.  Ran two 3:51 marathons that way.  Go for it, the worst that can happen is that you will struggle the last couple miles.

          +1 to what Mikey said on the distance/pacing.  Also, I've ran runs up to 22 with no nutrition before/during.  The first time doing 20+ was tough (but not a death march) without the food but after that it was no big deal.  If you want to be extra cautious, just bring a gu or granola bar.

            My current weekly long run is about 15.5 miles and heads out from my house about 6 miles to a wilderness preserve, then a couple of miles on the trails, then the 6 back to the house.  This has been working pretty well, but I'd like to (a) spend a greater percentage of my run on the trails than on the roads getting to them, and (b) do a particular 8 mile trail loop.  Doing this would mean bumping my long run to about 20 miles (no car and public transportation sucks).  Two questions:

             

            1. Is this a terrible idea without any intermediate distances (on 60-70 mpw)?  Also, my current long runs are already my longest ever runs, so anything beyond what I'm currently doing is 'unknown territory'.  That said, I'm not wiping myself out on my current long runs (e.g., last week I did a couple miles at HMP on the end of my long run and still felt good).

             

            2. I do basically all my runs first thing in the morning without breakfast beforehand and don't take in any calories during the run either (just water on the long ones).  This has never caused any problems as far as I can tell, but at some distance I imagine it's bound to.  Is attempting a 20 miler in this way also a terrible idea?

             

            If you were worried about "doing too much", why not ride a bike to near the preserve and then run around the preserve/trail?  When Sydney Maree came to the US from South Africa for the first time, he wasn't used to running on the road and that beat up his legs too much.  So he would ride a bike to a near-by golf course, about 6-mile away, and run around the golf course till his legs got stronger.

             

            That said, I wonder....since when has it become a normal thinking that a healthy 23-year-old who's been running up to 15-miles would have to ask on internet message board and get some opinion from complete strangers whether or not running 20-miles is too much or not?  By the time I was 19, I was running up and down 18~22-miles every weekend and not think anything of it. 

             

            Also, hate to say this but, for a healthy young man to be running 60~70 miles a week with a 15-mile long run, 21-minute 5k seems rather modest.  Unless you don't care about "performance" at all, perhaps you might want to rethink your overall training program???

              Gotta be Rancho San Antonio, right?

              Runners run.

              Zortrium


                If you were worried about "doing too much", why not ride a bike to near the preserve and then run around the preserve/trail?  When Sydney Maree came to the US from South Africa for the first time, he wasn't used to running on the road and that beat up his legs too much.  So he would ride a bike to a near-by golf course, about 6-mile away, and run around the golf course till his legs got stronger.

                 

                That said, I wonder....since when has it become a normal thinking that a healthy 23-year-old who's been running up to 15-miles would have to ask on internet message board and get some opinion from complete strangers whether or not running 20-miles is too much or not?  By the time I was 19, I was running up and down 18~22-miles every weekend and not think anything of it. 

                 

                Also, hate to say this but, for a healthy young man to be running 60~70 miles a week with a 15-mile long run, 21-minute 5k seems rather modest.  Unless you don't care about "performance" at all, perhaps you might want to rethink your overall training program???

                 

                Yeah, I could go buy or find a bike to use (only here for the summer), but I don't love biking and would rather just spend all my exercise time running anyways.

                 

                As to the second points, I'm guessing that you had a little bit of running and/or athletic background when you were 19 running those 18-22 milers every weekend.  18 months ago I'd never run more than a mile in my life and had no athletic background whatsoever.  Completely sedentary kid for 20 years.  My first race was just over a year ago, 6.75 miles at 9:35 pace (and I was dying at the end of that thing).  A few weeks ago I ran the same race again at a 7:19 pace, finishing much more comfortably.  Give me some time, I'm new to all this stuff.  As to the 5k result you quote, that's the one and only 5k I've ever run in my life, so I don't see how it's particularly useful in judging the effectiveness of what I'm doing.  But I welcome all input if you think there's something particularly wrong with what I'm doing.

                 

                @mikeymike: Yep, that's the one.  Want to try out the PG&E trail.

                  That said, I wonder....since when has it become a normal thinking that a healthy 23-year-old who's been running up to 15-miles would have to ask on internet message board and get some opinion from complete strangers whether or not running 20-miles is too much or not?  By the time I was 19, I was running up and down 18~22-miles every weekend and not think anything of it. 

                   

                  Also, hate to say this but, for a healthy young man to be running 60~70 miles a week with a 15-mile long run, 21-minute 5k seems rather modest.  Unless you don't care about "performance" at all, perhaps you might want to rethink your overall training program???

                   

                  Nobby - I think this is a little bit unfair. Not everyone has the same ability, or starts from the same point. I don't know anything about the OP - so your points may be justified, but equally they may not be.
                    Zortium, keep up the good work. 60-70 mpw is impressive especially since you haven't mentioned training for a marathon or beyond this fall. I think the key here is if you are easily handling that kind of mileage you have lots of potential. Get faster, run a marathon, train for an ultra, or all of the above!

                      I wish I were doing what you are when I was 23. 

                       

                      Shoe


                        My current weekly long run is about 15.5 miles and heads out from my house about 6 miles to a wilderness preserve, then a couple of miles on the trails, then the 6 back to the house.  This has been working pretty well, but I'd like to (a) spend a greater percentage of my run on the trails than on the roads getting to them, and (b) do a particular 8 mile trail loop.  Doing this would mean bumping my long run to about 20 miles (no car and public transportation sucks).  Two questions:

                         

                        1. Is this a terrible idea without any intermediate distances (on 60-70 mpw)?  Also, my current long runs are already my longest ever runs, so anything beyond what I'm currently doing is 'unknown territory'.  That said, I'm not wiping myself out on my current long runs (e.g., last week I did a couple miles at HMP on the end of my long run and still felt good).

                         

                        2. I do basically all my runs first thing in the morning without breakfast beforehand and don't take in any calories during the run either (just water on the long ones).  This has never caused any problems as far as I can tell, but at some distance I imagine it's bound to.  Is attempting a 20 miler in this way also a terrible idea?

                         

                        Hey, with that base, that long run jump is not going to be an issue.  If you've come up to that mileage in a year and a half, even more so.  That's a pretty rapid increase from being sedentary.  

                         

                        I would bring something with you but you won't necessarily need anything additional. Personally, I like something on me even if I don't plan to use it.  However, I have had issues of getting lightheaded during and after runs where I've not eaten before or during, and even fainted before- but this normally happens during periods where I am dieting.  It might not be an issue for you, but I do like the better safe than sorry.

                         

                        Have fun!!

                          @mikeymike: Yep, that's the one.  Want to try out the PG&E trail.

                           

                          What a beautiful place to run.  I wish I had run more when I lived out there--in a way that place got me into running, circa 1997-1999.  I hadn't run much at all since high school and at the time 8 miles was the outer limits for me, now a dozen years and twenty something thousand miles later, I'd really explore that place.  I did my first marathon the last weekend I lived in California--Big Sur.  Ran it in 3:40.

                           

                          Back then I was more into mountain biking and did a lot of really long rides up in those mountains on the other side of Ranco, from Stevens Creek county park.  If were there now, I'd probably find a way to connect them on foot...leave a car at one end and get dropped off at the other or something.

                           

                          PG&E to Upper High Meadow trail is beautiful though--I did that a lot  Once you get a mile or so away from the parking area you hardly see anyone.  I used to drive there and just run in the open space preserve so I didn't have the dilemma of having to use a lot of miles getting to and from.

                          Runners run.

                          Zortrium


                            Yeah, it's a very nice place to have nearby and I'm definitely going to miss it when I fly back east in a month.  Also really going to miss having it be 60 degrees out at 8 am in the middle of July (back to the MA humidity...).  Having it a bit far out though is a great motivating factor for the early Saturday morning LRs, though, which I tended to have a real problem with before this summer.  Also don't have to worry about parking in the preserve, which I gather is a nightmare at peak times (ie, Saturday mornings).

                              I wish I were doing what you are when I was 23. 

                               

                              This.

                               

                              As for training for a marathon (or more...) I don't think there's any hurry for that.  They'll be making plenty of marathons for years to come, just enjoy yourself and let your newfound interest gradually become a healthy addiction.  Keep it rolling Z.

                              E.J.
                              Greater Lowell Road Runners
                              Cry havoc and let slip the dawgs of war!

                              May the road rise to meet you, may the wind be always at your back, may the sun shine warm upon your SPF30, may the rains fall soft upon your sweat-wicking hat, and until you hit the finish line may The Flying Spaghetti Monster hold you in the hollow of His Noodly Appendage.


                              Feeling the growl again

                                I wish I were doing what you are  was still training like I was when I was 23. 

                                 

                                It cuts both ways...you've got more upside to look forward to now.

                                "If you want to be a bad a$s, then do what a bad a$s does.  There's your pep talk for today.  Go Run." -- Slo_Hand

                                 

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