1234

How does HM pace *feel* -- is it "conversational"? (Read 1417 times)


HobbyJogger & HobbyRacer

    I ran my first marathon and finished in 2:03 also. I don't know what my HR was. Or my BPM. Or my TDY. Or my XAF. Or my CPS. Or my cadence.

     

    I couldn't talk at all.

     

    But I think it was because I'd accidentally pulled the covers over my head -- when I woke up, I spit them out.

    It's a 5k. It hurt like hell...then I tried to pick it up. The end.

    JimR


      I ran my first marathon and finished in 2:03

       

      Holy crap!

       

       

      Smile


      A Saucy Wench

        I've heard it elsewhere (and see it written similarly above) ... If you are racing the HM correctly you should be wondering by mile 5 how you are going to hold it together till the end. I agree with this and find concentration and effort make conversation difficult and then, eventually, impossible. If you are well trained and running at race effort I don't see why finish time should matter. It should be hard regardless. If you are running the half as an "event" and can't have a conversation you might not be well trained.

         

        This.  I dont find EFFORT changes as I speed up (or more recently slow down) unless I am way under trained.  Race effort is race effort.

         

        For me I intentionally DO have conversations for the first 2-3 miles to keep things in check or I will go out too fast.  After that, no, it is pretty damn hard.

         

        And HM pace work on training days is always too hard to talk.  Thank god it seems easier on race days.

        I have become Death, the destroyer of electronic gadgets

         

        "When I got too tired to run anymore I just pretended I wasnt tired and kept running anyway" - dd, age 7

        JimR


          I disagree that race effort is the same regardless of the distance for a given individual.  Ultimately it will feel very hard at the end, maybe the same regardless of how far or fast I'm going, but overall it will be different for different distances.

           

          I also disagree that sustainable levels of effort for a given distance is basically the same for different runners regardless of how long it takes.  A faster runner can sustain a higher overall level of effort for the same distance than a slower runner as they need to sustain it for less time.  A 2 hour half marathoner cannot sustain the same level of effort a 90 minute runner can.  What you can and cannot sustain is mainly based on how long you need to sustain it, not how far.

          skygazer


             

            This.  I dont find EFFORT changes as I speed up (or more recently slow down) unless I am way under trained.  Race effort is race effort.

             

            For me I intentionally DO have conversations for the first 2-3 miles to keep things in check or I will go out too fast.  After that, no, it is pretty damn hard.

             

            And HM pace work on training days is always too hard to talk.  Thank god it seems easier on race days.

             

            Though HM pace in the race is quite comfortable for me until the last 2-3 miles, it is damn hard in training. I would not want to talk at all in a training run at that pace.

             

            But I think it's a different feel for different runners. I paced a friend in her HM PR attempt back in the fall. As a pacer, I only talked to her regarding the run, pace, and how she felt, etc trying to concentrated on the race (all the things I check while I'm running a race). But then some runner came up to us and chat. She was quite perked up chatting about all the family things. That looked pretty good to me thinking she must have a lot in the tank. The runner ran with us for ~5 miles and left us at mile 10 and I thought w/o spending energy in talking she'd be able to drop the hammer down. NOT at all, she said she's pretty much done. The rest of the race was all struggle.

             

            I couldn't understand how one could speak so effortlessly at mile 10 in a HM but suddenly lost all the energy. I can't even speak smoothly in a training jog (3min/mile slower than HM pace).

              I disagree that race effort is the same regardless of the distance for a given individual.  Ultimately it will feel very hard at the end, maybe the same regardless of how far or fast I'm going, but overall it will be different for different distances.

               

              I also disagree that sustainable levels of effort for a given distance is basically the same for different runners regardless of how long it takes.  A faster runner can sustain a higher overall level of effort for the same distance than a slower runner as they need to sustain it for less time.  A 2 hour half marathoner cannot sustain the same level of effort a 90 minute runner can.  What you can and cannot sustain is mainly based on how long you need to sustain it, not how far.

               

              Also consider the fact that people at different points on the ability curve will have different responses to the mental challenges of racing.

               

              A less experienced runner will get "the feeling" at some point and give into panic and/or despair. Their physical condition might allow them to run faster, but their Scumbag Brains say "nope, this sh$t is gonna kill us," and cuts the throttle.

               

              Get a few races in, however, and Scumbag Brain admits that maybe extreme discomfort doesn't mean impending doom. Racing doesn't get easier, but it gets does get easier to deal with the feeling of things not being easy....hmm....hope that makes sense.

               

              YMMV....this is just based on my own struggles with Scumbag Brain over the past couple of years.


              Feeling the growl again

                 

                Also consider the fact that people at different points on the ability curve will have different responses to the mental challenges of racing.

                 

                A less experienced runner will get "the feeling" at some point and give into panic and/or despair. Their physical condition might allow them to run faster, but their Scumbag Brains say "nope, this sh$t is gonna kill us," and cuts the throttle.

                 

                Get a few races in, however, and Scumbag Brain admits that maybe extreme discomfort doesn't mean impending doom. Racing doesn't get easier, but it gets does get easier to deal with the feeling of things not being easy....hmm....hope that makes sense.

                 

                YMMV....this is just based on my own struggles with Scumbag Brain over the past couple of years.

                 

                 

                Genius.  You should write a book.  I will buy into the Scumbag Brain model before the Central Governor model.

                "If you want to be a bad a$s, then do what a bad a$s does.  There's your pep talk for today.  Go Run." -- Slo_Hand

                 

                  I always thought half marathon pace was anaerobic.  Since one has 18 miles or so of glycogen storage to call upon and one can run faster anaerobically than aerobically wouldn't it make more sense to run the race that way if going for a PR?  Obviously this assumes sufficient conditioning.  Namely, one who hasn't build up the endurance wouldn't be able to.


                  jules2

                    Old age is when you move from illegal to prescribed drugs.

                       

                      i always carry a few jelly babies ( do you have those over the pond? ) and have one at preset mile posts, I rarely drink during one unless it is mega hot as I find it disrupts my rhythm and when I've tried I've often ended choking.

                       

                      I'm not very fast but I did manage a 3:53 marathon. Outside of water the only thing I used were gummie bears. I stuck one in my mouth as soon as the race started and just let it disolve, no chewing. When it was completely disoloved I stuck another in my mouth I just kept repeating the process for the entire race. I think I used a couple of dozen.

                      "The drops of rain make a hole in the stone, not by violence, but by oft falling." - Lucretius

                      SprinklesRunner


                      Whippet

                        Not conversational for me!

                        13.1: 1:45 | 26.2: 3:55

                          I could have a conversation with you if you are OK with one syllable responses to everything you say ...

                          MrH


                             

                            you don't know what you are missing

                             

                            https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=jelly+babies+history&hl=en&sa=X&tbo=u&tbm=isch&source=univ&ei=y4jkULGBOc_s0gX1mICABg&ved=0CEgQsAQ&biw=1920&bih=895

                             

                            I remember them well. Wine gums were popular too.

                             

                            But can you get a single 5lb Jelly Baby?

                            The process is the goal.

                            Men heap together the mistakes of their lives, and create a monster they call Destiny.


                            jules2

                              I think it would be hard to get a 5 lb jelly baby to set but my youngest daughter said buy me these beauties which she thought were modeled on meSmile

                               

                              q=jellyatrics+sweets&hl=en&client=safari&tbo=u&tbm=isch&source=univ&sa=X&ei=bNvlULufLMyT0QW_vYDwCw&ved=0CDkQsAQ&biw=1024&bih=672

                              Old age is when you move from illegal to prescribed drugs.

                              RunAsics


                              Person of Interest

                                 

                                This.  I dont find EFFORT changes as I speed up (or more recently slow down) unless I am way under trained.  Race effort is race effort.

                                 

                                For me I intentionally DO have conversations for the first 2-3 miles to keep things in check or I will go out too fast.  After that, no, it is pretty damn hard.

                                 

                                And HM pace work on training days is always too hard to talk.  Thank god it seems easier on race days.

                                 

                                I don't get this.  I'm pretty sure my effort increases as the race progresses.  OK, perceived effort.  More so the shorter the race distance.  If you are going my perceived effort alone, I'm pretty sure you'll be running a massive positive split.

                                 

                                In a HM, I'd be blowing smoke if I said HM pace in mile 13 requires the same (perceived) effort as in mile 1.  In my last HM I recall saying a few sentences to the guy I was running with around mile 8...something like "let's run down that guy".  After that, not so much...

                                "Only a few more laps to go and then the action will begin, unless this is the action, which it is."
                                1234