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How hills affect your race time (Read 355 times)

thumshaj


    I have been running for 2 years. My recent 10K race pace is 5:30(min/KM) and HM race pace is 5:50(min/KM).

    Two weeks ago I participated hill race(8.1K/Elevation diff:450m). I never trained for that kind of hill races,
    that was my first run with such an elevated route. It was hard and I need to walk several meters during the race.
    It took 1:01:30 to complete the race. So the pace compared to the 10K is about 2:10 minutes. I compared results
    of a few runners with their recent 10K race.
    Their average hill race time is about 1.10 times that of the 10K race. In my case it is 1.14 times of 10K race time(53:35)
    It would be interesting to know who will be able to perform better in hill running, what would be the best and average hill running pace compared to their normal pace?

    PRS 10K 00:49:15 HM 1:51:30 FM 4:11:30 

      I have been running for 2 years. My recent 10K race pace is 5:30(min/KM) and HM race pace is 5:50(min/KM).

      Two weeks ago I participated hill race(8.1K/Elevation diff:450m). I never trained for that kind of hill races,
      that was my first run with such an elevated route. It was hard and I need to walk several meters during the race.
      It took 1:01:30 to complete the race. So the pace compared to the 10K is about 2:10 minutes. I compared results
      of a few runners with their recent 10K race.
      Their average hill race time is about 1.10 times that of the 10K race. In my case it is 1.14 times of 10K race time(53:35)
      It would be interesting to know who will be able to perform better in hill running, what would be the best and average hill running pace compared to their normal pace? Hill route(Elevation 450m)

      It really all depends on your type (yes, it does matter) and how you prepare yourself.  Some people are a speed-type and they perform much better on flat course; some are more what I call a "punching" type who can perform better, for example, over rugged cross country courses, who handles hills much better than smooth type.

       

      Where I grew up in Japan, it's fairly flat, unless I choose hills which I didn't.  When I went to New Zealand, which is very hilly, and ran THEIR cross country races, I hated hills and that's where I always got passed.  After awhile, I trained over hills a lot and I've noticed that now uphill is where I actually pass people (I still remember this one particular CC race where the finish was about 200m uphill and I was actually sprinting up the hill and passed several runners.  When I went back to Japan, I intentionally picked hill courses and ran lots of hills, including hill exercises as well.  After that, I came back to WA and noticed that hills, both up AND down, now had become my strength.  So you CAN work on it and there's no formula; it all depends on your type and preparation.

        By the way, something of an interest: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23538293  Latest tweet from Amby Burfoot.


        A Saucy Wench

          Rolling hills I do faster than flat for the most part  It is pretty hard to find a flat race around here, but for both 10K and HM my PR is set on what I would call moderately hilly.   Sustained climbs are another matter.

           

          I have a 10K I have done several times and It has about a 3 mile gentle down grade to start and then you make all that elevation drop plus more back in the next mile and then you have gentle down to the finish.  I usually finish that race 90 seconds slower than the hillier 10K (but with 8 relatively short up and down rollers) 4 weeks before.  Every damn year.  I've tried going out harder and banking for the hill, I've tried going out easier and saving it for the hill, I've tried even pacing.  This year I decided to try not running the fucker. (good thing as I am in medical mystery land and not currently running)

           

          For  me it is almost entirely about the duration of the hill and the ability to turn over quickly on the downs to make it back.  When I was running well, I still was pretty slow uphill relative to other people but I could KICK it on down hills without hurting anything.

          I have become Death, the destroyer of electronic gadgets

           

          "When I got too tired to run anymore I just pretended I wasnt tired and kept running anyway" - dd, age 7

            Biggest question: is that point-to-point from bottom to top? up and down? or rolling hills? Road or trail? [I rarely do anything except hilly trail races, so am struggling with what "normal" is. My avatar is from a HM which climbs about 900m in the first 6.4km (about 14%), then climbs more gently before it descends on a point-to-point course. Some courses are run, some are power hiked..]

             

            Can you link to an elevation profile of your race? Sometimes a picture is worth a 1000 words.

             

            The best way to train for something like that is to run similar hills - or steeper or longer. Lots. But if you don't run hills normally, I'd start off with gentler, rolling hills so you don't do too much too soon. Then work or longer or steeper hills as you build strength. Over a 2-wk period, I normally have 3 hill workouts - 1 big (may be part of long run in summer), 1 medium, 1 rolling. Sometimes I'll have a second rolling hill run with gentler hills at an easier effort.

             

            Steeper hills may by hiked by mortals, and the steepest by even the elite. Sometimes hiking is faster than running.

             

             

            Since I don't have any races with the dimensions you have, I'll provide a range of paces (min / horizontal distance) which vary from about 12min/mi / 7.5min/km on gentle rolling terrain (probably close to an easy pace on relatively flat asphalt) to 30 min/mi (19min/km) in my steeper races (about 20% incline, uphill only - usually something like 2000ft up in 2.4mi). The fast folks might get up and down a 1875-m hill / 5k in under 1 hour (course record is 43+ min), but I have no idea what they run on the flat - or if they have ever done a flat race.

            "So many people get stuck in the routine of life that their dreams waste away. This is about living the dream." - Cave Dog

              By the way, something of an interest: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23538293  Latest tweet from Amby Burfoot.

              Thanks, Nobby. Thought that article was going to be the magic bullet . Smile  It does confirm what I've suspected in my own training - hard hills are good for economy and neuromuscular benefits. I'd be curious how different slopes might have an impact - but more so on something with rolling hills vs a 5k time trial.

              "So many people get stuck in the routine of life that their dreams waste away. This is about living the dream." - Cave Dog
              dallison


              registered pw

                I did the same on a pretty hilly course compared to a flat one. The difference in times was only a few seconds. I was baffled.

                2013 goals:

                sub 19 5k

                sub 1:30 half

                3:20 marathon on second try

                dallison


                registered pw

                  I do have a hill that i run that has 500 ft in elevation gain and then the same 500 in elevation loss in 3.7 miles. The first 100 yeards is an 18-20% grade and you are pretty winded by the end of that part. I think htat hill really helps me throughout the year. I will run it 2-4 times in a row depending how i am feeling.

                  2013 goals:

                  sub 19 5k

                  sub 1:30 half

                  3:20 marathon on second try

                  thumshaj


                    Elevation profile can be seen here

                    http://www.lcolympia.de/index.php/events/berglauf/strecke

                    I have included it  courses of my profile as well.

                    http://www.runningahead.com/logs/c67d91c58d09434e8c63560b7f4354be/courses

                     

                    Actually there are two steeper hills in this course, first one starts after around 700m, last 1 km is the second steeper one.

                    Biggest question: is that point-to-point from bottom to top? up and down? or rolling hills? Road or trail? [I rarely do anything except hilly trail races, so am struggling with what "normal" is. My avatar is from a HM which climbs about 900m in the first 6.4km (about 14%), then climbs more gently before it descends on a point-to-point course. Some courses are run, some are power hiked..]

                     

                    Can you link to an elevation profile of your race? Sometimes a picture is worth a 1000 words.

                     

                    The best way to train for something like that is to run similar hills - or steeper or longer. Lots. But if you don't run hills normally, I'd start off with gentler, rolling hills so you don't do too much too soon. Then work or longer or steeper hills as you build strength. Over a 2-wk period, I normally have 3 hill workouts - 1 big (may be part of long run in summer), 1 medium, 1 rolling. Sometimes I'll have a second rolling hill run with gentler hills at an easier effort.

                     

                    Steeper hills may by hiked by mortals, and the steepest by even the elite. Sometimes hiking is faster than running.

                     

                     

                    Since I don't have any races with the dimensions you have, I'll provide a range of paces (min / horizontal distance) which vary from about 12min/mi / 7.5min/km on gentle rolling terrain (probably close to an easy pace on relatively flat asphalt) to 30 min/mi (19min/km) in my steeper races (about 20% incline, uphill only - usually something like 2000ft up in 2.4mi). The fast folks might get up and down a 1875-m hill / 5k in under 1 hour (course record is 43+ min), but I have no idea what they run on the flat - or if they have ever done a flat race.

                    PRS 10K 00:49:15 HM 1:51:30 FM 4:11:30 

                      Elevation profile can be seen here

                      http://www.lcolympia.de/index.php/events/berglauf/strecke

                      I have included it  courses of my profile as well.

                      http://www.runningahead.com/logs/c67d91c58d09434e8c63560b7f4354be/courses

                       

                      Actually there are two steeper hills in this course, first one starts after around 700m, last 1 km is the second steeper one.

                      You might need to make your log public. That link is just linking back to my courses.

                      "So many people get stuck in the routine of life that their dreams waste away. This is about living the dream." - Cave Dog
                      thumshaj


                        You might need to make your log public. That link is just linking back to my courses.

                        The map is already <label>set to public, I changed log preferences as well. you may try now</label>

                        PRS 10K 00:49:15 HM 1:51:30 FM 4:11:30 

                          The map is already <label>set to public, I changed log preferences as well. you may try now</label>

                          OK. Looks like you did a decent job of trying to run as much of it as you could, considering you don't normally run on that type route. I can see a couple areas where it looks like you hiked, or ran really slowly.

                           

                          That should be runnable by a runner trained for hills.

                           

                          How would something like that compare to my normal times? I don't know since I'm not sure what "normal" is.

                           

                          For training, I take the simple-minded approach and run those types of hills - and maybe hike part if it's part of a longer race. To get stronger, I'll run or hike steeper hills. To get more powerful, I run short, steep stuff.

                           

                          (The trail I was on today was about 800ft in 4.1 mi - with the last 600ft in 2 mi - packed snow.)

                          "So many people get stuck in the routine of life that their dreams waste away. This is about living the dream." - Cave Dog
                          thumshaj


                            AKTrail, thanks for the clarifications.

                            Like Nobby mentioned, I believe that hill run performance depend on one's training on hills as well as personal type.

                             

                             

                            How would something like that compare to my normal times? I don't know since I'm not sure what "normal" is

                             

                            Normal course is the one that doesn't involve "heart-breaking hills", Smile .I think one can PR on such a course.

                            e.g. The first two courses in my profile, I would consider these are normal ones.

                            1. Spiridon 10K

                            2. Manglore 10K

                            3. Kurpark 10K

                            Third one, even though it is not a steeper hill, the minor elevation would affect one's performance slightly.

                            PRS 10K 00:49:15 HM 1:51:30 FM 4:11:30 

                              AKTrail, thanks for the clarifications.

                              Like Nobby mentioned, I believe that hill run performance depend on one's training on hills as well as personal type.

                               

                               

                              Normal course is the one that doesn't involve "heart-breaking hills", Smile .I think one can PR on such a course.

                              e.g. The first two courses in my profile, I would consider these are normal ones.

                              1. Spiridon 10K

                              2. Manglore 10K

                              3. Kurpark 10K

                              Third one, even though it is not a steeper hill, the minor elevation would affect one's performance slightly.

                              You asked about our own experiences. I don't run flat, paved races - only hilly trails. So is normal something with less hill but more roots or easier footing and bigger hills. I know about what pace I can expect on various types of terrain but don't worry about relative % like you did. When someone talks about paved races as "normal", I don't have those times. We do PRs by course, not distance.

                              "So many people get stuck in the routine of life that their dreams waste away. This is about living the dream." - Cave Dog