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| Once versus twice a day... (Read 623 times) |
| view log Junior Amphibian |
posted: 4/24/2008 at 12:47 AM |
| My understanding is that even professional athletes who run over 100 miles a week still typically don't run more than 10-15 miles during any single workout, unless it's the long run. So in order to squeeze that much mileage into 7 days, you have to run some of them twice a day. |
| "People ask why I run. I say, 'If you have to ask, you will never understand'. It is something only those select few know. Those who put themselves through pain, but know, deep down, how good it really feels." - Erin Leonard |
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posted: 4/24/2008 at 12:54 AM |
| Quote from renumeratedfrog on 4/24/2008 at 12:47 AM: My understanding is that even professional athletes who run over 100 miles a week still typically don't run more than 10-15 miles during any single workout, unless it's the long run. So in order to squeeze that much mileage into 7 days, you have to run some of them twice a day.
Right. But the salient question is why don't elite runners run more than 10-15 miles (60-90 minutes) in a single session very frequently. If you can answer that question, then you will see the value of doubling for athletes who are not running 100 miles per week. |
a vagabond,..highway-beater; a rolling stone, one that does nought but runne here and there.
~Cotgrave, Randle A dictionarie of the French and English tongues, 1611
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| view log Soon to be Dad (Apr. 30) |
posted: 4/24/2008 at 2:21 AM |
| Quote from Jeff on 4/24/2008 at 12:54 AM: Right. But the salient question is why don't elite runners run more than 10-15 miles (60-90 minutes) in a single session very frequently. If you can answer that question, then you will see the value of doubling for athletes who are not running 100 miles per week.
Oooh, Ooooh! I think I can answer this.
It is because it takes too long for the body to recover after a high(er) mileage workout.
Do I win a prize, or just a boot to the rear end?
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Goals for 2009:
Find the perfect jogging stroller
Sub-3hr Marathon
Contemplate an ultra |
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posted: 4/24/2008 at 12:49 PM |
| Quote from Jeff on 4/24/2008 at 12:54 AM: Right. But the salient question is why don't elite runners run more than 10-15 miles (60-90 minutes) in a single session very frequently. If you can answer that question, then you will see the value of doubling for athletes who are not running 100 miles per week.
I haven't read all the responses earlier (I read Willamona's! ;o)). I tried to double (not right now that I hurt my calf but usually I try to put 10~13 times a week) simply because, when I go for an easy jog in the morning; anywhere from 30~45 minutes; I feel much more vibrant and ready for the evening (and usually main) workout.
I take morning jog as a recovery/warm-up exercise. It acts as a massage to my leg muscles, loosening exercise, and it also delivers oxygen and other goodies (through improved blood flow). Is there any scientific evidence to that? I haven't read any but I won't be ready to dismiss it simply because there's no paper published (like some people we know) on that simply because it seems to work that way FOR ME.
Once Dick Quax, silver medalist in 5000 in 1976 Olympics and former world record holder for that distance, told me that, for him, most of the morning workouts were "workout". He was one of those who recover very well and could do that but I couldn't.
Ron Daws once said that, by training twice a day, you are teaching your body to recover within 12 hours instead of 24. One way to think about; but I think he was more like me and not Quaxie.
By the way, there are plenty of world class runners who trains much more than 10~15 miles during the week. |
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posted: 4/24/2008 at 12:57 PM
modified: 4/24/2008 at 12:57 PM |
| Quote from Nobby415 on 4/24/2008 at 12:49 PM: By the way, there are plenty of world class runners who trains much more than 10~15 miles [in a single session] during the week.
No one disputes this.
I'm sorry if my response came off as snarky, but I thought that I had given the reasons why doubles work for many people in my previous post. |
a vagabond,..highway-beater; a rolling stone, one that does nought but runne here and there.
~Cotgrave, Randle A dictionarie of the French and English tongues, 1611
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posted: 4/24/2008 at 2:08 PM |
| I got into a habit of walking on the TM in the morning just as a pick me up, before a long day of standing on my feet dealing with kids all day..I feel much more awake after doing so. and in the evening time I run as a way to relieve stress and to get miles in as well. exercising twice a day just seems to improve my conditioning. |
| Jamie
2008 races:
Race for Riley 4/26*
Callaway Gardens sprint tri- 6/22*,
Callaway 5k 8/31,
world wide HM and kick the couch 5k 10/11 or 10?12
PTC classic 15 k 10/18,
Callaway twilight 10k 11/1
*Atlanta HM 11/27 my ultimate goal for 2008!
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posted: 4/24/2008 at 2:14 PM |
| Quote from Jeff on 4/24/2008 at 12:57 PM: No one disputes this.
I'm sorry if my response came off as snarky, but I thought that I had given the reasons why doubles work for many people in my previous post.
I didn't particularly think your comment was "snarky". I think there's a reason why some runs should be single--I used to go for a long run with some old timers and they would say, after about 1:30 of the run, "Okay, now warm-up is done...!" Now THIS, and this is scientifically proven; you need to go a certain duration for some physiological changes to occur. There's a reason why some of those long runs should be longer than 2-hours; regardless of the distance. I thought that was Dr. Jack Daniels who said that development of mitochondria depends on the duration of the training regardless of the effort. I believe the same can be said of capillary development. So there's a reason why you should NOT break some of those long runs into doubles.
Having said that, for elite runners, the reason why they don't do, then, 2-hour runs day after day after day would probably be that they need to work on other elements as well. They might do a tempo run of about an hour. That would be very hard to do tempo run over 2-hours! They also do need to do some recovery runs and that shouldn't be over 2-hours long.
I was discussing this pattern of Japanese training with some of the runners and coaches at Boston this past weekend (including Hanson's); this particular Japanese team went to NZ for training camp for 21 days. They did, except for 3 days, nothing but 60 minutes in the morning; 90 minutes mid-day; 60 minutes in the evening. They weren't continuous runs but, with only 3~4 hours in between, I'm sure metabolism would stay relatively high. I don't know the total mileage (or kilometers) they did during this 21-days; but perhaps one of the reasons why they didn't do continuous runs would be to eliminate possibility of injuries. This is almost like doing interval training for distance work. You sort of remove the chance of over-pounding. I'm in fact against beginners, or slower runners, to do more than 3-hours for preparation for the marathon. In most cases, and I've been yelled at before, some people swear by doing 22-miles. But if you're a 6-hour runner, that's almost 5-hours of training run! Whenever you get your body to go through that kind of pounding, you're flirting with over-use problems. Coach Bill Squires suggested something like 3-hour run and then take a brief break and then do another hour's run or something like that... I think that would be much more sensible way to prepare for super long marathon. So does that mean breaking up all your long runs better? No. Like I said, I think the duration, not necessarily mileage, is important aspect to consider. And also total mileage that person is actually running is important aspect to consider. If someone is running, say, 20 miles a week; and if he/she is running 4 times a week; I would suggest him/her to increase the duration of the runs instead of doubling to pick up more mileage. Chances are; for some one like that, morning run would be about 2 miles. You'd waste more time changing and showering than actual running! It's probably better off if he/she included a couple of, say, 7~10 miles runs. So it really depends on the situation and individual. |
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| view log Soon to be Dad (Apr. 30) |
posted: 4/24/2008 at 2:27 PM
modified: 4/24/2008 at 2:28 PM |
| Quote from Nobby415 on 4/24/2008 at 2:14 PM: ...If someone is running, say, 20 miles a week; and if he/she is running 4 times a week; I would suggest him/her to increase the duration of the runs instead of doubling to pick up more mileage.
Agree very strongly with this statement and the above post!
I do not break up my long run days because marathon training requires that you do some ~20+ mile continuous runs. One wouldn't be prepared for the 26.2 if they broke up every long day.
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Goals for 2009:
Find the perfect jogging stroller
Sub-3hr Marathon
Contemplate an ultra |
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posted: 4/24/2008 at 2:37 PM |
| I started doing 2 a days this week. Hopefully, that will allow me to get over 20 miles / week. I'm only doing 2 miles with my dogs in the morning, but miles is miles. I'll take them whenever I can. |
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Mr Inertia view logHeck of a Guy |
posted: 4/24/2008 at 7:21 PM |
| if you're running for weight loss and your mileage is comparitively low, you may benefit from 2 a days. After a workout, your metabolism is at its highest. When you eat within 30 minutes of a workout, your body is going to burn the most amount of calories. If you workout twice per day, that's two times that your furnace is going to be burning hotter than usual so two opportunities to burn some more calories. |
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| view log Hawt and sexy |
posted: 4/24/2008 at 11:15 PM |
Aww, thanks Nobby. You should come on over and run. I am baking cookies. 
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| All your base are belong to us. |
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