How should race pace feel like? (Read 1572 times)

    I remember my frosh year in HS CC.  Every race hurt so bad.  I wondered if they would feel any better when I "got in shape." 

     

    By the end of the year, they still hurt even though I was in shape, but I grew into wanting that hurt.  You run to feel that hurt so you know you are giving your best effort.  You learn to accept it and then crave that feeling.

     

    The best part was running that last mile just burning in pain, trying to push past another person, and another.  Every person I would pass made me hurt more, but I loved it because I knew I was making them suffer too.  


    Feeling the growl again

       

       

      The best part was running that last mile just burning in pain, trying to push past another person, and another.  Every person I would pass made me hurt more, but I loved it because I knew I was making them suffer too.  

       

      <<Sniff>>

      "If you want to be a bad a$s, then do what a bad a$s does.  There's your pep talk for today.  Go Run." -- Slo_Hand

       

        I remember my frosh year in HS CC.  Every race hurt so bad.  I wondered if they would feel any better when I "got in shape." 

         

        By the end of the year, they still hurt even though I was in shape, but I grew into wanting that hurt.  You run to feel that hurt so you know you are giving your best effort.  You learn to accept it and then crave that feeling.

         

        The best part was running that last mile just burning in pain, trying to push past another person, and another.  Every person I would pass made me hurt more, but I loved it because I knew I was making them suffer too.  

         

        If only some of the MS kids I coach had this attitude about racing. I get the impression some of them slow down at the first feeling of perspiration.

        qwerty85


          If only some of the MS kids I coach had this attitude about racing. I get the impression some of them slow down at the first feeling of perspiration.

           

          After reading how some others feel racing, I'm beginning to think that's me too.

           

          At least I still get faster the fitter I am. 

           

          For me, my fastest races have been my best feeling ones- smooth throughout.. very strong mental doubts of whether I can continue but no actual *pain*  My best races have probably hurt the least.

            Okay, starting to obsess about my 5K race coming up in a week and trying to get a feel for this and what I should be capable of.

             

            I ran a progressive Tempo run last night with a one mile warm up and cool down and the middle miles were 7:50, 7:40 and 7:30.  The last fast mile on that Tempo run was very tough, I was thirsty, breathing fairly hard and about 1/2 way through I actully thought about just jogging it in, but I toughed it out and made it.  I actually ended up walking for about 100 yards when I got done with that split before jogging in the last mile.  VERY tough workout, my heart rate monitor is broken right now, but I would guess that I came pretty darn close to max HR at the end of that last fast mile of the tempo.  It was sunny and 84 and a decent 14mph breeze so not ideal conditions, but I got it done.

             

            My goal 5K is 24:00, and based on my last 10K race the pace calculators say I should be able to run a 23:45 if the conditions are the same as my last race which was pretty close to ideal conditions.  If I'm doing my math right, I just ran a 23:45 pace for my 3 mile Tempo run (I was short the .1 miles, but I think I could have held that pace for that much longer in a race for sure) in less than ideal conditions.

             

            I'm thinking I can start out at a 7:30 pace on my 5K race and stick to that for the first 2 miles and then gut it out and see where I end up from there.  I almost think if conditions are really good I might have a tiny chance of breaking the 23:00 mark which would be 7:30, 7:30 and then 7:15 on in from there. 

             

            So here's where I need help.  When should I start breathing hard on a 5K race?  On my tempo run yesterday I wasn't breathing very hard until toward the end of mile 2 of the fast section and really not super hard until the very end of the fast miles.  I didn't get a side stitch or anything like that or even close.  I had discomfort with 1/2 mile to go on the fast section and thought about quitting, is that race pace?

             

            I know that this is all a mental game and I'm the only one who really knows what I'm feeling and capable of, but reading back through these posts, I'm curious at what point do you feel that you are getting out of breath and breathing really hard?  1 mile to go? 2 miles to go?  When do you start working into that rhythm with breathing and strides?  I hardly ever even notice that I'm breathing on a normal run.  I don't give it any thought at all. 

             

            For a middle of the pack runner making their way toward the top quarter of the pack runner I guess I need to decide that pain is part of a real race, not just discomfort.  I just haven't dealt with it enough in the running arena to have a clue as to how much I can take and when I should expect it to arrive.  Typically I have a very high pain tolerance so my cocky attitude is that what I think is discomfort others might think is pain, but I for sure have never felt like vomiting at the end of a race.

             

            Long rambling post like usual for me, asking questions that probably can't be answered. 

            Age: 46 Weight: 205 Height: 6'2" (Goal weight 195)

            Current PR's:  Mara 3:48:09; HM 1:43:26; 10K 43:59; 5K 21:27

              Okay, starting to obsess about my 5K race coming up in a week and trying to get a feel for this and what I should be capable of.

               

              I ran a progressive Tempo run last night with a one mile warm up and cool down and the middle miles were 7:50, 7:40 and 7:30.  The last fast mile on that Tempo run was very tough, I was thirsty, breathing fairly hard and about 1/2 way through I actully thought about just jogging it in, but I toughed it out and made it.  I actually ended up walking for about 100 yards when I got done with that split before jogging in the last mile.  VERY tough workout, my heart rate monitor is broken right now, but I would guess that I came pretty darn close to max HR at the end of that last fast mile of the tempo.  It was sunny and 84 and a decent 14mph breeze so not ideal conditions, but I got it done.

               

              My goal 5K is 24:00, and based on my last 10K race the pace calculators say I should be able to run a 23:45 if the conditions are the same as my last race which was pretty close to ideal conditions.  If I'm doing my math right, I just ran a 23:45 pace for my 3 mile Tempo run (I was short the .1 miles, but I think I could have held that pace for that much longer in a race for sure) in less than ideal conditions.

               

              I'm thinking I can start out at a 7:30 pace on my 5K race and stick to that for the first 2 miles and then gut it out and see where I end up from there.  I almost think if conditions are really good I might have a tiny chance of breaking the 23:00 mark which would be 7:30, 7:30 and then 7:15 on in from there. 

               

              So here's where I need help.  When should I start breathing hard on a 5K race?  On my tempo run yesterday I wasn't breathing very hard until toward the end of mile 2 of the fast section and really not super hard until the very end of the fast miles.  I didn't get a side stitch or anything like that or even close.  I had discomfort with 1/2 mile to go on the fast section and thought about quitting, is that race pace?

               

              I know that this is all a mental game and I'm the only one who really knows what I'm feeling and capable of, but reading back through these posts, I'm curious at what point do you feel that you are getting out of breath and breathing really hard?  1 mile to go? 2 miles to go?  When do you start working into that rhythm with breathing and strides?  I hardly ever even notice that I'm breathing on a normal run.  I don't give it any thought at all. 

               

              For a middle of the pack runner making their way toward the top quarter of the pack runner I guess I need to decide that pain is part of a real race, not just discomfort.  I just haven't dealt with it enough in the running arena to have a clue as to how much I can take and when I should expect it to arrive.  Typically I have a very high pain tolerance so my cocky attitude is that what I think is discomfort others might think is pain, but I for sure have never felt like vomiting at the end of a race.

               

              Long rambling post like usual for me, asking questions that probably can't be answered. 

               

              Sub 23 is in the bag, and if you can quiet the nervous mind, you could probably run sub 7 pace for 5k. Smile

               

              You are fit -- just get that big brain out of the way and enjoy this season of PRs.

                npaden I feel like your getting a little too carried away on the over analyzing thing, comes off as nervous chatter. The danger there is it's more than possible to start talking yourself out of what your capable of (which I think is more than you suspect it is).

                 

                As long as you don't do anything crazy like open with a 2:40 or a 6:15 or something I don't think you'll have any problems going under 23. Heck, there is a good chance you might surprise yourself by going faster than that if you don't freak out and think "i can't do this" just because you see a fast number.

                 

                I'm tempted to say it could be a good decision to just leave the watch at home. 

                They say golf is like life, but don't believe them. Golf is more complicated than that. "If I am still standing at the end of the race, hit me with a Board and knock me down, because that means I didn't run hard enough" If a lot of people gripped a knife and fork the way they do a golf club, they'd starve to death. "Don't fear moving slowly forward...fear standing still."

                  it could be a good decision to just leave the watch at home. 

                  Runners run.

                    For a 5K, in my experience, the first mile should be mildly uncomfortable but not too bad.

                    The second mile should start to hurt in earnest.  Here is where you should push the pace (IMO) just a bit faster than seems wise.

                    The third mile is all about guts and should hurt all the way through.  You should (or I always do) feel like you're going to die for the last 400 m or so.

                      Yes. Leave the Garmin at home. I've run all my PR's (my real PR's, not the ones in my runningahead log) without the Garmin and believe that had I worn the Garmin, I wouldn't have run nearly as fast. It can really hold you back. For me, I NEVER thought I would run a 10k in under 47 minutes, so of course I didn't: I would spend the whole race looking at my Garmin and every time I would see a pace faster than 4:42/km (aka 47:00 pace) I would panic for fear of blowing up. I mean, duh, right? Obviously that was not a good race tactic. Then I forgot my Garmin one race and bam, 10k in 45:10 - yes the course was certified, no it was not short!

                       

                      In short: Go for it Smile

                       

                      MTA: relevance to original question. I haven't run a 5k in ages, but I run a fair number of 10k's, so just in case my experience helps: The first 6 or 7k I'm breathing hard, but under control. It's not comfortable but it doesn't hurt (much...as long as I don't think about it). The pain sets in around km 8. From there until about km 9.6 it's not much fun. Then it's like, oh, we're almost done? Ok then, I guess I can sprint a little. Then it's over. I think that the more race experience you have, the more you can judge your pace via your breathing and know when you're on the line between a good race pace and crashing and burning.

                        For a 5K, in my experience, the first mile should be mildly uncomfortable but not too bad.

                        The second mile should start to hurt in earnest.  Here is where you should push the pace (IMO) just a bit faster than seems wise.

                        The third mile is all about guts and should hurt all the way through.  You should (or I always do) feel like you're going to die for the last 400 m or so.

                         

                        Yes.  I concur with this description 100%.  It's the best short description in this thread of what a real 5k race effort should feel like.  

                         

                        "The second mile should start to hurt in earnest.  Here is where you should push the pace (IMO, too) just a bit faster than seems wise."  Perfect.

                        - Joe

                        all running goals are under review by the executive committee.

                          (my real PR's, not the ones in my runningahead log)

                           

                          Agree with the rest of your post, but I'm curious:  Don't you log your races in RA?  My real PRs are here in my log.

                          Well at least someone here is making relevance to the subject.

                            Many people have PR's that pre-date their use of the Running Ahead dot com training log.

                            Runners run.

                              Agree with the rest of your post, but I'm curious:  Don't you log your races in RA?  My real PRs are here in my log.

                               

                              Oh, I just started using RA recently, and have only run a couple of races since, and apparently the RA logs those automatically in the PR section. That's all I meant. I had a baby 11 months and 3 weeks ago so I'm still getting back in shape. My PR's are prebaby but I plan on setting new ones in the near future Smile

                                Many people have PR's that pre-date their use of the Running Ahead dot com training log.

                                 

                                or PRs that pre-date the internet as we know it. :-)