2013 Sub-3:30 Marathon Goal Thread (Read 1380 times)

    17 w/10 miles at goal marathon pace.  I tried to run by feel rather than having a set pace in mind but it still felt hard.  They get easier, right?

     

    When following Pftiz I've always found the MP runs the hardest workouts to perform at the correct pace. I can always hit the interval sessions and tempo runs without too much trouble.

     

    But then my marathon performances are poor compared with my performances at shorter distances according to the usual equivalences - maybe I'm just not cut out for marathons?

     

    This time round I intend to use the advanced training plan from the new Hanson book. So I won't be doing quite the same long runs (although the plan does call for a reasonable amount of marathon pace running).

    Julia1971


      Julia - solid training run. I'm following Daniels 5k-15k plan right now. In middle of Phase i as we speak to train fro 2 HM's this spring. Daniels has  achart in book about LT runs and how to slowdown the tempo runs based on the duration. I'm a VDOT 47 currently and he has my T pace at 7:10. According to chart I won't run a 40min tempo at 7:10 but +15 seconds 7:25.

       

      Yes, that's a handy chart.  And, I want to re-read the purpose of these workouts.  I want to better understand the interplay between distance, pace, and whether doing them as cruise intervals sabotages the workout for marathon training...  I think a related problem is that there's not much spread between my HM pace and my faster paces.  I think I've lost some speed from doing back-to-back marathon training cycles and I need to figure out how to correct that (and when).

      You're too strong not to keep on keepin' on. - The Pips
      Yes, I am! - Gladys Knight

      jedigunnie26.2


      BQ in 2013

        When following Pftiz I've always found the MP runs the hardest workouts to perform at the correct pace. I can always hit the interval sessions and tempo runs without too much trouble.

         

        But then my marathon performances are poor compared with my performances at shorter distances according to the usual equivalences - maybe I'm just not cut out for marathons?

         

        This time round I intend to use the advanced training plan from the new Hanson book. So I won't be doing quite the same long runs (although the plan does call for a reasonable amount of marathon pace running).

         

        I think that's what I like about Hanson is all the MP tempo runs. You get used to running that pace over the course of a cycle.

        PR's - 5K - 20:15 (2013) | 10K - 45:14 (2011)  | 13.1 - 1:34:40 (2013)  | 26.2 - 3:47:47 (2012)

         

        2013 Goals - 3000 miles (940m May'13) | sub20 5k | sub 43 10K  | sub1:35 13.1 | sub 3:15 26.2

         

        2013

        Saginaw 5k - 1/19/13 - 20:15 PR

        Chambersburg Half Marathon - 3/9/13 - 1:36:22 PR

        Frederick Half Marathon - 5/5/13 - 1:34:40 PR

         

        Up Next:

        Shippensburg Fair 5k - 7/27/13

        RnR Philadelphia Half Marathon - 9/15/13

        Philadelphia Marathon - 11/17/13

          Yes, that's a handy chart.  And, I want to re-read the purpose of these workouts.  I want to better understand the interplay between distance, pace, and whether doing them as cruise intervals sabotages the workout for marathon training...

          I think there's a significant value to doing the longer tempo (or steady-state, whatever) runs in one sustained effort v. breaking them up into cruise intervals.  First, it's all too easy to get the LT pace wrong and be overdoing it ... but when you only go 5min or so before taking a small breather, you never really "pay the price" for that mistake, or even feel it that much.  Second, the mental training aspect is huge, especially as the steady-state run continues and the perceived mental/physical effort increases.

          “Everything you need is already inside.” -- Bill Bowerman

          Julia1971


            I think there's a significant value to doing the longer tempo (or steady-state, whatever) runs in one sustained effort v. breaking them up into cruise intervals.  First, it's all too easy to get the LT pace wrong and be overdoing it ... but when you only go 5min or so before taking a small breather, you never really "pay the price" for that mistake, or even feel it that much.  Second, the mental training aspect is huge, especially as the steady-state run continues and the perceived mental/physical effort increases.

             

            I did some reading during lunch and it was interesting to me that Pfitz seems to says in the book part of Advanced Marathoning that cruise intervals are good but tempos are better and therefore, doesn't put any cruise intervals in the plans. Daniels seems to say if you keep the break short enough (1 min.), the lactate levels don't drop so much during cruise intervals. So, you can go longer and get the same benefit. When Pfitz described cruise intervals, his rest periods are longer (2 mins.). I wonder why. And Daniels creates these intricate tempo-long run hybreds that remind me why I didn't follow his marathon plan and went with Pfitz instead.

            You're too strong not to keep on keepin' on. - The Pips
            Yes, I am! - Gladys Knight

            FSocks


            Gramps

              I'd like to jump on the sub 3:30 bandwagon for 2013.  I have a full on 2/17 but I'm only targeting sub 3:40 and then I'll be targeting sub 3:30 next winter.  I just had a 3:35 fail attempt at Tucson a little over a week ago.  Classic mistake of going out too fast and running the first half at sub 8 pace before my hamstring locked up at 21.5 miles.  

               

              I ran some very easy miles last week to help recover and I figure I'll have another easy week with additional miles to fully recover.  By next week I should be back into 70ish MPW range.  Not really following a plan but just running something like the following.

               

              M: off

              T: 10 tempo

              W: 15 morning with 10 at MP; 5 evening recovery

              Th: 8 easy

              F: 10 GA

              S: 8-10 easy

              Sun: Long run 16-20

              Running is dumb. 

                I'd like to jump on the sub 3:30 bandwagon for 2013.  I have a full on 2/17 but I'm only targeting sub 3:40 and then I'll be targeting sub 3:30 next winter.  I just had a 3:35 fail attempt at Tucson a little over a week ago.  Classic mistake of going out too fast and running the first half at sub 8 pace before my hamstring locked up at 21.5 miles.  

                 

                I ran some very easy miles last week to help recover and I figure I'll have another easy week with additional miles to fully recover.  By next week I should be back into 70ish MPW range.  Not really following a plan but just running something like the following.

                 

                M: off

                T: 10 tempo

                W: 15 morning with 10 at MP; 5 evening recovery

                Th: 8 easy

                F: 10 GA

                S: 8-10 easy

                Sun: Long run 16-20

                 

                FSocks, I am just curious about your training plan. Do you follow any proven plan? Looking at your log, running over 10 miles 6 days a week seems a lot to me.  Before the attempt, you didn't have a taper period. Maybe that was one of the reasons your hamstring locked up at 21.5 miles.

                 

                From the plan you described above, T 10 tempo and W 15 with 10 MP also seem a lot to me for two consecutive hard workouts.

                 

                I always thought people doing over 70 MPW are tackling sub-3 pace. Have you thought about reducing your weekly mileages and put some speed workout, such as 800m interval?

                5k - 20:56 (09/12), 7k - 28:40 (11/12), 10k trial - 43:08  (03/13), 42:05 (05/13), FM - 3:09:28 (05/13), HM - 1:28:20 (05/14), Failed 10K trial - 6:10/mi for 4mi (08/14), FM - 3:03 (09/14)

                FSocks


                Gramps

                  FSocks, I am just curious about your training plan. Do you follow any proven plan? Looking at your log, running over 10 miles 6 days a week seems a lot to me.  Before the attempt, you didn't have a taper period. Maybe that was one of the reasons your hamstring locked up at 21.5 miles.

                   

                  From the plan you described above, T 10 tempo and W 15 with 10 MP also seem a lot to me for two consecutive hard workouts.

                   

                  I always thought people doing over 70 MPW are tackling sub-3 pace. Have you thought about reducing your weekly mileages and put some speed workout, such as 800m interval?

                   

                  I started using Pfitz 18/70 back in August but in September I pulled a hamstring and I was out of commission for a couple of weeks.  After than I decided to skip most speed work and simply put in mostly easy miles.  I did a 2 week taper going in to Tucson.  I'm 46 so targeting sub 3 is pretty far off the charts for me; I'd be happy with a BQ of 3:25.  

                   

                  The midweek long run of 15 doesn't always include the 10 at MP as I do it more based on feel than a set schedule.  

                  Running is dumb. 

                  zenetanar


                    I followed Pfitz 12/70 last training cycle and think while it definitely improved my endurance, my speed wasn't any better.  My half time was 1:41:05 but I still managed to pull off a sub 3:32 marathon (and in horrendous weather!) - I never felt really fatigued during the race.  Now my question is -- how do I get faster?  Wink    I'd like to improve my half marathon time and go sub 1:40 for sure.  

                     

                    In response to RNR USA I ran that last year -- I live in the DC area so I'm used to this terrain.  I don't think I've ever run a flat race other than the Shamrock marathon.  I run up Rock Creek all the time and don't think it's that challenging.  I do remember a lot of hills at the end that I wasn't thrilled to run up so late in the race.  I also remember it was really hot at the end -- it was just an unseasonably warm weekend.  Which could happen again.  And for my race (Shamrock, the next day) as well.

                     

                    I did a 50K trail this weekend so I'm taking it easy. No speed til January.  Then we dig into training.

                    novastrider


                      Hi, I'm new to this forum.   I've been running since 2010 and have run 4 marathons so far.  two in 2011 and two in 2012.  after a disasterous 2nd marathon in 2011 (5:22) I hired a coach who made up a program for me to follow.  ever since i've been setting PR at every distance I run.  In May 2012 I ran a 4:06 Bluenose marathon and in October 2012 I ran a 3:51 Valley Harvest marathon.  my goals for 2013 are to run a 3:40 at the Fredericton marathon in May and than attempt to qualify for Boston at the Wineglass marathon in October.  I'm aiming for a 3:20 at the Wineglass.  I'm currently running 60+k a week in my program in preparation for a february half marathon.  cheers.

                      running since 2010. PR: 5k 21:44, 10k - 44:33 42.2k - 3:51 2013 Goals 5k - sub 21:00, 10k - sub 45:00, 21.1k - 1:45, 42.2k - 3:20

                        Hi, I'm new to this forum.   I've been running since 2010 and have run 4 marathons so far.  two in 2011 and two in 2012.  after a disasterous 2nd marathon in 2011 (5:22) I hired a coach who made up a program for me to follow.  ever since i've been setting PR at every distance I run.  In May 2012 I ran a 4:06 Bluenose marathon and in October 2012 I ran a 3:51 Valley Harvest marathon.  my goals for 2013 are to run a 3:40 at the Fredericton marathon in May and than attempt to qualify for Boston at the Wineglass marathon in October.  I'm aiming for a 3:20 at the Wineglass.  I'm currently running 60+k a week in my program in preparation for a february half marathon.  cheers.

                         

                        Hi Novastrider, were the Bluenose marathon hills difficult? I am planning to run the 2013 one. Did you do a lot of hill training for the bluenose preparation?

                        5k - 20:56 (09/12), 7k - 28:40 (11/12), 10k trial - 43:08  (03/13), 42:05 (05/13), FM - 3:09:28 (05/13), HM - 1:28:20 (05/14), Failed 10K trial - 6:10/mi for 4mi (08/14), FM - 3:03 (09/14)

                        novastrider


                          Hi Novastrider, were the Bluenose marathon hills difficult? I am planning to run the 2013 one. Did you do a lot of hill training for the bluenose preparation?

                           

                          yes its a hilly course and I found it difficult.  my coach never had me doing hill work but speedwork once a week.  all of my other runs have hills incorporated.  its hilly where i live so i can't run and avoid them.

                          running since 2010. PR: 5k 21:44, 10k - 44:33 42.2k - 3:51 2013 Goals 5k - sub 21:00, 10k - sub 45:00, 21.1k - 1:45, 42.2k - 3:20

                          Julia1971


                            I thought I'd give a quick update...  Started the second Pfitz phase last week.  Hit 80 miles without too much trouble.  (I hit 3,000 miles for the year!)  I decided to do the first tempo workout as cruise intervals.  I did 6x0.85mi (which is about 6:00) w/1-min recoveries.  Averaged 7:12 pace which is pretty close to 15K-HM pace.  I think I'm going to do the next one as a traditional tempo run and continue alternating...  I also got a chance to scope out the Rock Creek section of RnR USA.  The stretch leading to Calvert is steep but I think I agree with those that doubt this section needs to be a game changer.

                             

                            Hope everyone's training is going well.  Looking forward to some race reports in the New Year.

                            You're too strong not to keep on keepin' on. - The Pips
                            Yes, I am! - Gladys Knight

                              Hi!  Count me in with an early opportunity to hit my 2013 goal.

                               

                              ramberg_jk15 – 13JAN2013 –CHEVRON HOUSTON (Houston, TX)

                               

                              I'll be targeting 3:28, but we shall see how that goes on race day. My mileage isn't where I'd like it to be, but I feel good going into my second marathon.  I ran 3:35 at SF in 2011, but the hills destroyed me and I had nothing at the end.  Hopefully I'll maintain my pace a lot better in Houston.

                               

                              Best of luck to everyone reaching their goals this year!

                              Julia1971


                                FYI, I wrote up a race report for a 10 miler I ran this weekend in the Marathoner Dailies thread.  Shorter version: I finished in 1:11:54.  Not a great time, but it was a tough course and I did run 80 miles this week, so I wasn't expecting greatness.

                                You're too strong not to keep on keepin' on. - The Pips
                                Yes, I am! - Gladys Knight