Obama won.. (Read 1493 times)


A Saucy Wench

    are we still talking about this? 

    I have become Death, the destroyer of electronic gadgets

     

    "When I got too tired to run anymore I just pretended I wasnt tired and kept running anyway" - dd, age 7


    HobbyJogger & HobbyRacer

       srlopez:

       

      I thought your post was specifically about "exptremely liberal policy example", as a response to this (bold by me)?

       

      Yeah.  It is a mystery how people call a president who has continued Bush's policies internationally while not allowing the bread and circus tax cuts to expire, preemptively taking the public option off the table and caving to so many demands from the minority party can possibly be considered an extreme liberal -- at least if you judge by his record.  Can someone name one single extremely liberal policy that he has enacted?  I admire his willingness to bend over backwards to compromise with the minority party, but really... he's not even moderately liberal. 

      It's a 5k. It hurt like hell...then I tried to pick it up. The end.

        If Obamacare had included a public option and some  price controls on insurance company premiums, it might  then be considered liberal.

          I don't even want to think about what our monthly insurance premium is going to be next year.  It will suck.


          Best Present Ever

            I don't even want to think about what our monthly insurance premium is going to be next year.  It will suck.

             

            Given that the affordable care act has MORE controls on the pricing on insurance premiums and particularly tax offsets specifically recognizing that small business currently pay significantly more that larger businesses, you might want to put your worrying energy toward something else.

              Given that the affordable care act has MORE controls on the pricing on insurance premiums and particularly tax offsets specifically recognizing that small business currently pay significantly more that larger businesses, you might want to put your worrying energy toward something else.

               

              I think the worry is well founded.  We are in open season already for our medical plans where I work.  There are a lot of things that have changed.  Some of them improve the benefits like eliminating the lifetime spending cap, so I'm not saying that the "affordable care act" is a complete failure but....  One thing that is common to all 4 of the medical plans my company now offers is that they are more expensive.  Our most expensive plan that carries the lowest deductibles and copays went up by about $4000/year for a family.  Therefore I would say the FACTS of the argument well outweigh the Kool-aid that the administration is selling.  But you go ahead and drink up.

              Colonial 200 Relay Sep 20-21 -

              Smithfield Hog Jog 5K 12 Oct -


              A Dance with Monkeys

                correlation ≠ causation


                Feeling the growl again

                  Given that the affordable care act has MORE controls on the pricing on insurance premiums and particularly tax offsets specifically recognizing that small business currently pay significantly more that larger businesses, you might want to put your worrying energy toward something else.

                   

                  The act actually contained nothing to prevent insurance companies from raising their rates to cover the increased cost of the coverage mandated.  You don't get something for nothing; if you can't reject people for prior conditions (not to say I'm a fan of that), it will increase the cost of care and premiums will go up.  There is a reason it was called such a great thing when passed in 2010 but they are not implementing much of it until 2014.  There will be some surprises when the full impact is felt.

                   

                  The ironic thing is that, as a whole, the "Affordable Care Act" did nothing to address the root cost drivers making healthcare so unaffordable for many.  Insurance premiums aren't the root problem, healthcare costs are.  Practitioners still have perverse incentives to deliver unnecessary care in an inefficient manner, and providers/hospitals,insurers still participate in an opaque pricing and reimbursement model that prevents consumers from choosing care based on quality and value.  Healthcare really operates in a noncompetitive environment where there is little pressure to demonstrate value over other alternatives or control costs.  Name another product that you buy with no idea what it is going to cost, the seller won't tell you if you ask, you can't understand the bill when you get it, and you have no idea if what you got is as good as what the competition would have given you and what their price would have been.  If care is really going to be made affordable, those are some of the things that should have been addressed.  What reform that would have been! (MTA spelling)

                   

                  Meanwhile, plenty of employers are considering dropping health insurance for their employees when the full program kicks in in 2014.  It will be much cheaper to pay the penalty than to insure their workers.  There will be more people forced to buy their own plans for much more than they paid under their employers...settling for inferior plans to be able to pay for them.

                  "If you want to be a bad a$s, then do what a bad a$s does.  There's your pep talk for today.  Go Run." -- Slo_Hand

                   

                    correlation ≠ causation

                     

                    Yeah, I'm sure they are completely unrelated.  Drink up.

                    Colonial 200 Relay Sep 20-21 -

                    Smithfield Hog Jog 5K 12 Oct -

                      The act actually contained nothing to prevent insurance companies from raising their rates to cover the increased cost of the coverage mandated.  You don't get something for nothing; if you can't reject people for prior conditions (not to say I'm a fan of that), it will increase the cost of care and premiums will go up.  There is a reason it was called such a great thing when passed in 2010 but they are not implementing much of it until 2014.  There will be some surprises when the full impact is felt.

                       

                      The ironic thing is that, as a whole, the "Affordable Care Act" did nothing to address the root cost drivers making healthcare so unaffordable for many.  Insurance premiums aren't the root problem, healthcare costs are.  Practitioners still have perverse incentives to deliver unnecessary care in an inefficient manner, and providers/hospitals,insurers still participate in an opaque pricing and reimbursement model that prevents consumers from choosing care based on quality and value.  Healthcare really operates in a noncompetitive environment where there is little pressure to demonstrate value over other alternatives or control costs.  Name another product that you buy with no idea what it is going to cost, the seller won't tell you if you ask, you can't understand the bill when you get it, and you have no idea if what you got is as good as what the competition would have given you and what their price would have been.  If care is really going to be made affordable, those are some of the things that should have been addressed.  What reform that would have been! (MTA spelling)

                       

                      Meanwhile, plenty of employers are considering dropping health insurance for their employees when the full program kicks in in 2014.  It will be much cheaper to pay the penalty than to insure their workers.  There will be more people forced to buy their own plans for much more than they paid under their employers...settling for inferior plans to be able to pay for them.

                       

                      This is a clear and coherent post, but I thought that many of the factors that you mention here would be mitigated by spreading costs over a larger group of people -- including the currently uninsured. This is at least the reasoning behind mandated coverage. Also, the thought is that if we can get everyone's care managed instead of so many folks having to go to the ER, that this would also reduce costs. I am not sure whether the math adds up, but it seems that any reasonable analysis would have to take these factors into consideration.

                       

                      To the point about demonstrating value of care -- isn't this what conservative opponents of the plan called "death panels" and was a primary problem that they found with Obamacare? I thought the idea was that experts would make these decisions about cost/benefit in consultation with docs and patients. This sounds fairly reasonable to me, and sounds at least as efficient as the open market (the facts are in on the open market, and it doesn't have much to say for itself.) I think the reason that the open market doesn't work well with health care is that it's hard for patients to be a) well informed and b) reasonable actors in the face of severe health issues. In other words, people don't act as free economic agents doing cost/benefit analysis when their own health is what's at stake.

                       

                      To heffa: I think Trent's point was simply that health premiums are rising because the costs of health are rising. Obamacare is a response to this, not a driver of it. Of course reasonable people disagree about whether Obamacare is a good response, but any claim that Obamacare is or would be the principle "cause" of rising health care costs is simply false.

                         

                        To heffa: I think Trent's point was simply that health premiums are rising because the costs of health are rising. Obamacare is a response to this, not a driver of it. Of course reasonable people disagree about whether Obamacare is a good response, but any claim that Obamacare is or would be the principle "cause" of rising health care costs is simply false.

                         

                         I got Trent's point.  I just disagree with it.

                         

                        Your post jumps back and forth between "health premiums" and 'health care costs" as if they are the same thing.  I 100% agree that "health care costs" are going up independent of Obamacare.  But I strongly disagree that the rise we are seeing in "health premiums" is solely because of the increase in cost.  Health care costs have been increasing for quite some time and my health premiums have been slowly going up as well.  It was not until this year with my company facing the requirements of Obamacare that we got a step increase in premiums.  And before I get another Trent driveby, my company has specifically said the increase in cost is directly attributed to Obamacare.

                        Colonial 200 Relay Sep 20-21 -

                        Smithfield Hog Jog 5K 12 Oct -

                           I got Trent's point.  I just disagree with it.

                           

                          Your post jumps back and forth between "health premiums" and 'health care costs" as if they are the same thing.  I 100% agree that "health care costs" are going up independent of Obamacare.  But I strongly disagree that the rise we are seeing in "health premiums" is solely because of the increase in cost.  Health care costs have been increasing for quite some time and my health premiums have been slowly going up as well.  It was not until this year with my company facing the requirements of Obamacare that we got a step increase in premiums.  And before I get another Trent driveby, my company has specifically said the increase in cost is directly attributed to Obamacare.

                           

                           Sounds like you agree that the primary driver of the increase in premiums is rising health care costs. Glad we agree. Cheers!

                            I just finished my 2013 benefits enrollment. The extended deadline is today (you bet your ass I used all of the extra time they gave us due to Hurricane Sandy.  Why do today what you can put off until tomorrow?) That was fun.

                             

                            Anyway, my premium for health coverage would have gone up 10.5% if I had selected the same plan as last year, but instead I went with a higher deductable plan with an HSA.

                             

                            10.5% is way too high year to year, but it's below average for the last 5 years.

                             

                            My helpful anecdote for the day. I love when RA does healthcare.

                            Runners run.

                            xor


                              I dunno if "his" (he didn't really come up with it himself) big thing is going to work or not.  I, like most of you, am frustrated by the increased cost of healthcare premiums and actual healthcare costs.  Unlike many (but not all, and for that I am sorry) of you, I unfortunately have dealt with a way way bigger burden than just a monthly premium and a couple visits here and there.

                               

                              But it was the first time that someone actually tried to help me.  Directly.

                               

                              Even if he's wrong, someone did something. 

                               

                              There's a lot of "I think I'll be pissed off and I will say I'm pissed off and I will do nothing except speak in pissed off tones" in this country.

                               

                              Screw that. 

                               

                              (Says the guy speaking in pissed off tones.)

                               

                              I wish this message board had an 'ignore thread' feature.  I will have to try harder.  (said in a nonpissedoff tone.)