Marathon fueling (Read 2332 times)

    I would call what a body goes through beyond mile 20 when racing a marathon to be fairly grave and extreme.  But maybe that's just me.

     

    I'm still working on the jog-in-the-park marathon.  "Racing" vs. racing.

    Well at least someone here is making relevance to the subject.


    A Dance with Monkeys

      A 26 mile jog in the park should not require any on-course calories unless you have not eated prerace carbs.


      Prince of Fatness

        A 26 mile jog in the park should not require any on-course calories unless you have not eated prerace carbs.

         

        What about Percy Warner Park, or whatever the hell it's called?

        Semi-retired.


        A Dance with Monkeys

          There, you need beer.

            Thanks all for your advice/opinions.  I'm not going to take them anymore, except for maybe on my final long run to ensure they don't suddenly do something creepy to my stomach. 

             

            The longest training run I've ever done is 20 mi, and I'm confident I could have added another 6 and still not hit the wall.  I wasn't sure whether it would help me squeeze out some additional speed, which would be better for my training.  I hit a peak mileage week last week and even in the last few miles of my final run, although my legs were really tired, they were really responsive.  That's just lots of miles over years, not gu. 

             

            Not talking about anyone on here, but I think people confuse hitting the wall with dead legs.  I hear 'oh I hit the wall during a half marathon' and I'm so skeptical.  I lost the will to live both times, I no longer gave two hoots about my finishing time or whether I finished at all, I really don't want to go there again.  Third marathon in and I was fine, given that I didn't go out too fast and I did some additional carb loading in the days leading up.

             

            I think in marathon 2 I followed the logic that I could just have a gu every 45 mins and I'd be fine, even after hitting the wall.  There's nothing quite like the 'I'm going to puke' feeling after you've got gu swimming in your stomach and you're robotically reciting 'left right left right', for the final 3 miles.  Good times. 


            A Dance with Monkeys

              The longest training run I've ever done is 20 mi, and I'm confident I could have added another 6 and still not hit the wall.

               

              Just so you know, many a marathoners have felt Tony the Tiger Grrrrrrrrreat! at mile 20, 21 or even 23, only to collapse and fall apart just a few steps later.  The marathon is a mean beast.

                Just so you know, many a marathoners have felt Tony the Tiger Grrrrrrrrreat! at mile 20, 21 or even 23, only to collapse and fall apart just a few steps later.  The marathon is a mean beast.

                 

                Yep, there's a big difference in a 20 mile run at training/easy pace, verse a true marathon pace. I've even gone 24 miles and felt great. A funny thing happens when you try to run over a minute/mile faster on race day. 

                  I remember looking at my watch at mile 22 during my first marathon, I was coming in so much faster than my pace band had predicted and I had the thought 'this is so much easier than I thought it was going to be'.  I can't tell you what point after the 22 miles that things went bad, but it was very soon after, and it was very bad.  I've got some good 'I wish I was dead' smiles for the cameraman to remind me. 


                  Consistently Slow

                    The last 2  miles of my 1st marathon was a blur. I just kept repeating "It"s not the finish line". Wanted to puke when I crossed the line.

                     

                    Did I help jack my thread?

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                      My first and only marathon so far was last December.  I ran the first 21 miles exactly how I wanted...a little under a 4 hour pace.  For the most part, I was feeling good during these 21 miles.  Then, out of nowhere, it hit me with no warning.  Legs started hurting.  Was it cramping?  Not really, but felt like it.  Head started hurting.  Shoulders were hurting.  Everything hurt.  Those last 5 miles were agony. 

                        Depends on the weather.

                         +1

                         

                        I don't have a formula in training, it's totally dependant on the weather.  During a marathon I hit every aid station, except maybe the last one or two.

                        heather85


                          I'm not saying that I taught Greg this but this was something we started talking maybe at around 2004 or 2005.  We are both from Old School; we believe in long runs, we believe in blocks, we believe in doing those long runs without GU and other energy gel. 

                           

                          As you said, "you (may) need to get used to some level of glycogen depletion..."; what's better than NOT constantly refueling during the long runs?  I mean, what is the purpose of long run?  Isn't it to get used to go LONG?  You do that, yet you don't want to get used to using up muscle glycogen?  Sure, go take as much as you want during the race (well, within reason) because that's when you need it.  What's the point of keep pampering your body not to face it in training by constantly refueling?  If that's not the influence of marketing scheme, I don't know what is. 

                           

                          I haven't worried about refueling in years in long runs or any marathons I didn't race  - not for any training effect but because I didn't like the cost.  However, my stomach doesn't handle things now.  It seems like everything bothers it. It didn't used to.  I wish I could get over it. It's especially noticeable now as I try to diet and lose weight because I need something to avoid getting lightheaded.   I'm trying to use some Accelerade for runs over 12 miles (protein/carb like suggested in Fitzgerald's Racing Weight; it seems a little easier on my stomach but doesn't hold well for races since it's not on the course and hard to carry).  I really feel like my tolerance to taking things in has gone down though my energy needs haven't (in a race setting).  I suppose it could be coincidental and related to other things (getting older every year) but it has occurred since I realized I didn't need the gels like Runner's World would have you do it (haha) and stopped.  I'm wanting to get my stomach stronger now so it can handle SOMETHING in a race without requiring a stop.

                           

                          What do you think of the results of that studies that show no performance improvement in glycogen depletion during training despite improvement in metabolic markers, but increased injury/illness risk? I haven't actually read over the studies just read a report on them so this a serious question to your insight on them.. I know that leg extension exercise showed improvement, but that seems more particular that the cycling studies that showed no improvement, or the runners in Liverpoole... (Sorry if my memory is weak on this.) 

                            I haven't worried about refueling in years in long runs or any marathons I didn't race  - not for any training effect but because I didn't like the cost.  However, my stomach doesn't handle things now.  It seems like everything bothers it. It didn't used to.  I wish I could get over it. It's especially noticeable now as I try to diet and lose weight because I need something to avoid getting lightheaded. 

                             

                            FWIW I think that our GI systems are as trainable as anything else we use to run. Something I've done is to do medium training runs after a day of fasting (or eating very little) and start eating stuff starting a couple of miles into the run - work on eating more than I would in a race. It seems to have made a big difference for me with how well my stomach works under race conditions.

                             

                            (YMMV and any other appropriate disclaimers)

                            Zortrium


                              FWIW I think that our GI systems are as trainable as anything else we use to run. Something I've done is to do medium training runs after a day of fasting (or eating very little) and start eating stuff starting a couple of miles into the run - work on eating more than I would in a race. It seems to have made a big difference for me with how well my stomach works under race conditions.

                               

                              (YMMV and any other appropriate disclaimers)

                               I've neither run nor trained for a marathon, but I think this is true.  This summer I've been doing almost all my runs on an empty stomach first thing in the morning.  The few times I ate something beforehand (not even during, and nothing particularly heavily), my stomach was not very pleased during the run.  I definitely don't remember having this issue a couple months ago when I was doing more midday running.

                              DoppleBock


                                But there is a maximum amount of liquid that one can absorb per hour - Like everything else it differs per person.  I tend to take a cup of something every aide station (I am a heavy sweater) - Say 15 aide stations - 4 ounces per cup = 60 ounces - Plenty on a cool day.  On a hot day I will take 2 cups at some aide stations and get 80-90 ounces.  Exact ounces not important ... I usually alternate between h20 and sports drink every other aide station

                                 

                                Some races have 25 aide stations - I will probably skip 5 of them.

                                 

                                But I can also lose 15 pounds of sweat in a 2 hour run, so hydration is pretty important to me ... or more exactly trying to keep in a lessor state of dehydration as possible.

                                 

                                I said don't over-think; I didn't say not to think at all.  To me, worrying about how many ounces of fluid you should take per hour is over-thinking.  Not to take any water because some on-line stranger suggested even if the weather condition is 85 degrees, that's simply not thinking.

                                 

                                Actually, you nailed my point exactly.  Why worry about how much to drink when you have no idea what the weather is going to be like months in advance.  Spend that effort into preparing you better than worrying about how much hydration is a perfect formula.

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                                2013 Goals ~ Mar < 3:00, 5M < 29, 10k < 35