Forums > Racing > Goal of sub 18:36 minute(6 minute mile average) and sub 18:00 5k
As I've probably explained before my priority this year is marathon training. I'm using a modfied version of the Pfitzinger 70-85/18wk plan and it's pretty tough. I'm about half way through and am hitting the 80+ mile weeks. To fit in a weekly 5k up to this point I've been replacing one of the easier runs. Last week this meant I had to follow it with a tough workout on Thursday (11 w/ 5 @15k pace) and I just couldn't quite hit the right pace. So this week I'm thinking that maybe I shoudl replace the tempo pace workout with Nite Moves. I could do the course twice at, say 19:30 pace with a brief pause between the two laps and that, with a warmup and cooldown, would replace the 12 w/6@15kpace scheduled workout.
So my plan was to do this, unless the weather was perfect (ie low wind) in which case I'd just go for it and worry about the schedule later, after basking in a new pr.
Seems like a good plan, right? Except you know that classic interview question where they ask you to name your biggest weakness and you always say something really lame like 'I'm a perfectionist' or 'I work too hard' or some other crap you think you can get away with? Well I just realized my biggest weakness is coming up with mutliple plans and then totally failing to pick one so I end up acheiving neither goal
As the start time rolls around it looked to be windy so I went with plan A. I even replace my shoes with Asics Banditos which I just got and want to try out. Not as light as the Hyperspeed but I'm hoping to use these for the marathon so thought I'd give them a try. We line up and the wind dies down, so I go with plan B. The first mile is slower than I'd hoped so for a moment I'm back to plan A but then I realize that I don't want to slow down and get passed by a bunch of people (because that sucks) so it's back to plan B. By this stage I'm hopelessly confused so I just race. Racing is fun. I pick people off steadily through the race. Finished in 18:33, not great, in fact second slowest this season, but way faster than I'd intended if I was going to do the course twice. But I jog back to the start and do the course twice anyway. The start is only about a quarter of a mile from the finish, so I think I had a couple of minutes of rest. I managed the second go round in 20:21. I might have been a bit faster except I chatted to a couple of other runners out cooling down in the first mile. Some of the course marshal's were very enthusiastic about seeing someone go by twice - I'm surprised they noticed given there are runners and biathletes on the course. Going uphill was much harder the second time around (mile 1 was 6:48 and mile 2 was 6:38) and coming downhill, even at a reasonable pace, was easier. My last 1.1 miles on the second loop were at 6:17 pace.
So kind of weird. 18:30 and the 20:20 was not what I had intended. Probably a harder workout than 19:30, 19:30 but hopefully a similar training value.
John
Wow, you are strong at the moment John, this is a good sign for the marathon for sure.
How many more of the Nite Moves races have you got left?
I'm supposed to be racing a 5k in about 10 days but I'll see how I feel the day before as I'm a bit nervous about injuries at the moment after some ankle problems. To be honest, I just need miles, miles and more miles in the next month after a few injury related low mileage weeks.
I feel the clock ticking, 2 months to my marathon!
Resident of Pennsyltucky
Good job John, that's a strong showing. Great that you can recover that quickly and still run another 5K that fast a few minutes later, shows the mileage is paying off. If you don't end up cracking 18 it won't be because of endurance or stamina.
I am fighting serious burnout at the moment. I tried backing off the pace and distance, that isn't working, am taking a few days off. It also does not help that we are having the first tropical type weather of the season. Can't imagine doing 80 miles per week when I wasn't even at 40.
Good job John, that's a strong showing. Great that you can recover that quickly and still run another 5K that fast a few minutes later, shows the mileage is paying off. If you don't end up cracking 18 it won't be because of endurance or stamina. I am fighting serious burnout at the moment. I tried backing off the pace and distance, that isn't working, am taking a few days off. It also does not help that we are having the first tropical type weather of the season. Can't imagine doing 80 miles per week when I wasn't even at 40.
KPK - I can relate to the burnout! I have had a few months of heavy (for me) training capped off by meeting my 18:36 5K goal and then a tough 3day trail relay race. I got back Tuesday and have just been unmotivated to train this week. It's absolutely a mental thing as I don't hurt physically anywhere. I've decided to take this entire week as very light in running and do some other, fun, stuff. Last night did a MTB ride which with all the training haven't had much time to do anymore. Later I'll get out my dirtbike and spend an afternoon goofing off on the trails. I'm already starting to feel better! You'll soldier through it too.
John, what the heck?! 18:33 and then a 20:21. You are gonna be so ready for Cowtown.
KPK - I can relate to the burnout! I have had a few months of heavy (for me) training capped off by meeting my 18:36 5K goal and then a tough 3day trail relay race. I got back Tuesday and have just been unmotivated to train this week. It's absolutely a mental thing as I don't hurt physically anywhere. I've decided to take this entire week as very light in running and do some other, fun, stuff. Last night did a MTB ride which with all the training haven't had much time to do anymore. Later I'll get out my dirtbike and spend an afternoon goofing off on the trails. I'm already starting to feel better! You'll soldier through it too. John, what the heck?! 18:33 and then a 20:21. You are gonna be so ready for Cowtown.
Its totally mental. My legs aren't tired at all. I got in 6 Saturday and 3 Sunday both on the treadmill due to warm, humid weather and felt a little better. I backed off my pace from 7:40-7:45/mile to closer to 8/mile. Yesterday was good because I was helping my friend move all day (88 degrees, very humid) and didn't feel like it but felt refreshed after the easy 3.
A belated update on week 11. Only 5 weeks left after this one. Windy again and I felt really tired on the first mile, uphill into the wind. 6:07 - exactly the same as last week. It didn't get any easier up to the turnaround and although I passed a couple of people I wasn't feeling good. Shortly after the turnaround I was passed by a regular who beat me all last year but I have been beating this year. Although I tried to stay with him it just wasn't happening. Second mile passed in 6:08. Started to feel pretty bad mentally now as well as physically. Such a loser. Then a strange thing happened, I'd somehow closed on the guy and was actually feeling better. In fact for most of the final mile I felt better and better. I passed back with about a quarter mile to go and was able to fend off some young punk in the final stretch. Final 1.1 was 6:11 for a final time of 18:26. Strange race.
I'm still hoping that with a low wind night I can get at least one more fast run in before the season ends. Sub-18 may be a stretch but it's still possible. Last year my best three times were in the final three races......
Mr Consistency John! You are racking up the miles so I'm still pretty convinced you can get that sub 18 before the series is out (if the weather behaves). If not you'll have to find a flat one then you definitely do it!
I've decided to have another 5k run-out on Monday as my recent niggles seem to settled down, though I won't wear my racers as a precaution. It'll be good to have a race again as I've not run one for nearly 2 months.
A slightly unusual picture from the turnaround.
RothRunner - Good luck on Monday. Let us know how it goes. I just realized that you are next up on the sub-3 race list. Berlin sounds like a great choice - how did you pick that one? I've only been there once and there was a great big wall through the city. I think I heard they got rid of it though.......
Quint - I'm currently planning on devoting next year to shorter distances - before I get too old! This will include a lot of 5k's again but also a 3k, the mile again and some track meets.
There is a flat 5k here in about two weeks but it is paired with a 10k and I'm actually thinking of doing the 10k rather than the 5k. I briefly considered doing both (they are an hour apart with the 5k first) but I think this might be the dumbest option - although I would have a slim chance of getting two pr's since my 10k pr is rather weak. The 10k would be better for the marathon training, it's also part of the local grand prix so the competition will be much better in the 10k.
A slightly unusual picture from the turnaround. Quint - I'm currently planning on devoting next year to shorter distances - before I get too old! This will include a lot of 5k's again but also a 3k, the mile again and some track meets.
Cool picture - I hate that turnaround!
Shorter distances was the plan for me this year but I kinda got derailed when I was injured in late January. I've hit some track meets but the last one is next week and I've barely scratched the surface. I'm hoping I'm in shape for the winter meets to attack some of my PR's in short distances. I did a 70.7second 400m and 11:53 2 mile last night and I believe I can absolutely lower those (especially the 2 mile as it felt almost easy after the lung-busting 400 race). Mile on the track race tomorrow morning. If I hadn't run all 11 years of the Silicon Valley Marathon I probably wouldn't run any marathons this year. You absolutely may see me down SB way for that mile race!
RothRunner - Good luck on Monday. Let us know how it goes. I just realized that you are next up on the sub-3 race list. Berlin sounds like a great choice - how did you pick that one? I've only been there once and there was a great big wall through the city. I think I heard they got rid of it though....... Quint - I'm currently planning on devoting next year to shorter distances - before I get too old! This will include a lot of 5k's again but also a 3k, the mile again and some track meets. There is a flat 5k here in about two weeks but it is paired with a 10k and I'm actually thinking of doing the 10k rather than the 5k. I briefly considered doing both (they are an hour apart with the 5k first) but I think this might be the dumbest option - although I would have a slim chance of getting two pr's since my 10k pr is rather weak. The 10k would be better for the marathon training, it's also part of the local grand prix so the competition will be much better in the 10k. John
Cheers John. I decided on Berlin because I fancied a visit and it was easy to get into. The other big marathons are ballot based, but Berlin you just log on, pay and your in. I'm quite excited now. Yeah, I think fortunately they've knocked that wall thing down, I'll just have to avoid the invisible one!
& I think you're right that the 10k will work better for your marathon training, but I bet you're very tempted on the day to rattle through both of them....
Well I think I knew that this wasn't going to be a great performance tonight after the warm-up, my legs were in pieces before I started.
Still I decided to try a new tactic of a conservative start as I've slowed in the 3rd & 4th k's in my 2 previous 5k's. This backfired somewhat when I went through in 3:44, 14 secs slower than my last one, so I won't be trying that again!!
I picked it up a little in the second k, but I was a bit half-hearted for the rest of the race. I passed quite a few in k's 2 & 3, but then got left in no man's land in the 4th. I could see the runner in front about 20-30 meters but I didn't have the drive to chase him down. So I finished in 18:25 for my slowest 5k to date.
Still, good training for the marathon of course, and it's not surprising I was tired off 36 miles in 3 days. I'm a bit disappointed I didn't fight a bit harder though.
Well I think I knew that this wasn't going to be a great performance tonight after the warm-up, my legs were in pieces before I started. Still I decided to try a new tactic of a conservative start as I've slowed in the 3rd & 4th k's in my 2 previous 5k's. This backfired somewhat when I went through in 3:44, 14 secs slower than my last one, so I won't be trying that again!! I picked it up a little in the second k, but I was a bit half-hearted for the rest of the race. I passed quite a few in k's 2 & 3, but then got left in no man's land in the 4th. I could see the runner in front about 20-30 meters but I didn't have the drive to chase him down. So I finished in 18:25 for my slowest 5k to date. Still, good training for the marathon of course, and it's not surprising I was tired off 36 miles in 3 days. I'm a bit disappointed I didn't fight a bit harder though.
Not too shabby though! What other tune up races do you have planned before Berlin?
Cheers John,
Maybe a 10k on the 20th, otherwise I may end up doing something like a 10 mile time trial.
Good luck with the 5k tomorrow. Hopefully that wind will drop.
Robin
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