my crossfit/paleo freinds hate wheat (Read 833 times)

    I had cabbage rolls for supper.  I then played hockey and almost puked.  Maybe I should eliminate cabbage rolls, including it's ingredients, from my diet?

    (No, I'm not serious, but it seems this is the way many people view certain food eliminations.  In my case, it was probably more that I pushed myself really hard)

     

    you said "almost" so it doesn't count. :-)

     

    When i was real young, I choked on jello (with carrots) and threw up. For years, I wouldn't eat jello out of fear of throwing up. Now, I don't eat it because I figure it's just a worthless substance.


    A Saucy Wench

      To clarify what I said, I feel HUGELY better when I avoid copious quantities of wheat (pasta for dinner, etc.) but when I took it to that next step and eliminated it completely - NOT a 2-3 week "elimination diet"  about 7 months, I did not feel significantly better than when I had tiny quantities occasionally ( The pork roast 2 nights ago was dredged lightly in flour before it was roasted, the sauce at the meal at the restaurant last week was probably thickened with flour, etc.).   LOTS bad.  LITTLE good. NONE - really not that different than "little".

       

      The difference was when I DID have wheat then after months totally off.   HORRIBLE.  Felt worse than I had EVER felt having wheat on a daily basis.    Which of course is taken as "see how horribly bad for you it must be".    Now I eat wheat sometimes in small amounts and if I DO have a large amount, I know it.  I can feel it.  But it isnt horrible.  It is like a mild hangover except in my gut.  Not pleasant but not agony.  Nothing that makes me freak out and say "boy I better not EVER do that again"

       

      That is what I protest.  People who have MODERATE sensitivities (I am not going to tell you they dont exist) are turning them into severe sensitivities by total elimination.

       

      MTA: the other thing I see is people ARE confusing causation.  The first person I knew who was not celiac but went gluten free was touting how much better she felt.  A few years ago the symptoms began returning and she was fretting what she was going to give up next.  Away went corn.  which helped, but not as much as she hoped.  What it ended up being after long long discomfort was that when she originally went gluten free it was rare.  So by default she eliminated rather than replacing. Pancakes, cookies, cakes, bread, pizza  When all the gluten free stuff hit the markets she started reintroducing.  And it turned out she just doesnt do well on a high carbohydrate diet of any kind, especially one involving lots of sugar.  Gluten free pancake mix was the culprit.   Gluten free cake.  etc.  Once she went back to whole foods she was fine.  Even with wheat.  She still doesnt eat bread or cakes or anything like that, but she no longer grills the waiter to make sure there is gluten free soy sauce.

      I have become Death, the destroyer of electronic gadgets

       

      "When I got too tired to run anymore I just pretended I wasnt tired and kept running anyway" - dd, age 7

      Better I Leave


        To clarify what I said, I feel HUGELY better when I avoid copious quantities of wheat (pasta for dinner, etc.) but when I took it to that next step and eliminated it completely - NOT a 2-3 week "elimination diet"  about 7 months, I did not feel significantly better than when I had tiny quantities occasionally ( The pork roast 2 nights ago was dredged lightly in flour before it was roasted, the sauce at the meal at the restaurant last week was probably thickened with flour, etc.).   LOTS bad.  LITTLE good. NONE - really not that different than "little".

        Same here. I went about 6 months completely gluten free. I didn't really "feel" much different, but I did break through my weight loss plateau that I'd been fighting for so long and got down to 13.5% body fat. I'm back to eating wheat (just had some tortillas tonight), but I just don't go "overboard" anymore.


        Right on Hereford...

          http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20714643

           

          http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15685550

           

          http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2636828/

           

          http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19358573

           

          http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19940509

           

          Thanks for the links. I read all of the abstracts, but what claims in the original article do they support?

           

          Here are a few claims I would like to see supported...

           

          - "Modern wheat really isn't wheat at all"

          - "There are as many health risks associated with the consumption of wheat as there are nutritional benefits claimed by the wheat industry."

          - Followup to the above: what are the quantified risks vs. the quantified benefits?

          - "All nutrient content of modern wheat depreciated more than 30% in its natural unrefined state compared to its ancestral genetic line."

          - Wheat causes neurological impairment, dementia, heart disease, cataracts, diabetes, arthritis and visceral fat accumulation

          - "The body does not recognize processed wheat as food."

          - Wheat is "a health damaging grain that will not benefit, advance or even maintain your health in any way."

           

          The articles you posted above talk about how different varieties of wheat are either more or less likely to cause celiac disease, a condition that affects less than 1% of the world's population, and possibly far less than 1%.

           

          More entertaining reading from the same website...try reading this for a laugh:

           

          http://www.wakingtimes.com/2013/01/19/truth-or-denial-in-the-age-of-information-overload/

           

          Quote: "Vibrationally and spiritually things are even crazier as the Matrix and its inter-dimensional minions furiously fight against the natural progression of change and advancing energetic waves of Truth our world is experiencing."

          Better I Leave


             Here are a few claims I would like to see supported...

             

            - Wheat causes neurological impairment, dementia, heart disease, cataracts, diabetes, arthritis and visceral fat accumulation

             

            As I look at my mother in the nursing facility at the age of 72, as she slowly dies from diabetes, has no sensation in her extremities, going blind, and "spikes" when consuming wheat...I'm gonna have to say that it "ain't the best thing since sliced bread"...pun intended.

             

            For the record...I still consume wheat...only in moderation.

            Better I Leave


               More entertaining reading from the same website...try reading this for a laugh:

               

              http://www.wakingtimes.com/2013/01/19/truth-or-denial-in-the-age-of-information-overload/

               

              Quote: "Vibrationally and spiritually things are even crazier as the Matrix and its inter-dimensional minions furiously fight against the natural progression of change and advancing energetic waves of Truth our world is experiencing."

               

              Ummm....Is that "for real"? I'll pass.

                 More entertaining reading from the same website...try reading this for a laugh:

                 

                http://www.wakingtimes.com/2013/01/19/truth-or-denial-in-the-age-of-information-overload/

                 

                Quote: "Vibrationally and spiritually things are even crazier as the Matrix and its inter-dimensional minions furiously fight against the natural progression of change and advancing energetic waves of Truth our world is experiencing."

                 

                I'm kinda jealous - wish I could write such gibberish.

                Well at least someone here is making relevance to the subject.


                Right on Hereford...

                   

                  As I look at my mother in the nursing facility at the age of 72, as she slowly dies from diabetes, has no sensation in her extremities, going blind, and "spikes" when consuming wheat...I'm gonna have to say that it "ain't the best thing since sliced bread"...pun intended.

                   

                  Sorry to hear about your mom, but a) wheat didn't "cause" her diabetes, and b) diabetics should generally avoid all foods with a high glycemic index, because they can cause an insulin spike, right? That should include white bread, potatoes, white rice, etc. Nothing particular about wheat, here. And whole wheat is not even a high glycemic index food.

                   

                  I still don't understand all the wheat haters. Just a fad, IMO.

                     

                    As I look at my mother in the nursing facility at the age of 72, as she slowly dies from diabetes, has no sensation in her extremities, going blind, and "spikes" when consuming wheat...I'm gonna have to say that it "ain't the best thing since sliced bread"...pun intended.

                     

                    For the record...I still consume wheat...only in moderation.

                     

                    I think you hit the nail on the head - moderation.

                     

                    I base my eating primarily on lean meats, good fats, some fruit and a ton of vegetables (cruciferous, root etc) and do eat potatoes (primarily sweet) although not everyday with some bread if I fancy it.

                     

                    Personally I don't buy the fact that we need to eliminate wheat completely however I certainly see beneft from minimizing it because at the end of the day there isn't any difference chemically once a slice of factory / supermarker made wholegrain bread or white bread has been digisted by your body - glucose aka Sugar coupled with the other long unpronouncable names on the packaging

                     

                    I liked this article from a former USDA director of food dietary guidance. http://www.whale.to/a/light.html

                     

                    I am not so concerned with the wheat aspect but more the fact that people eat high carbohydrate diets. Dr Tim Noakes the famed exercise physiologist, runner made a very insightful video here that I think all runners should watch http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bsx72V4IpJY

                     

                    So if you are having at least the 9-11 servings of bread, grains a day as prescribed by the standard Food pyramid and you are a runner then maybe you haven't got to worry about weight issues but bio-chemically down the road you maybe doing more harm than good with all that insulin racing around your body let alone the average person who does zero exercise and eats ready made cereals, pints of juice etc

                     

                    My opinion is is sugar at the end of the day whatever way you cut it - refined, natural, brown demerera (dyed with molasses). Best thing to do is to minimize or eliminate refined sugar, processed foods etc and eat more natural foods i.e. things that we hunt and grow (not process and your own preferably). Of course I will indulge in pizza, fish and chips, ice cream etc but probably only 20% of the time.


                    Girl Parts

                      Is google broken for you?  lol

                       

                      Seriously, the original article was poorly written and poorly researched.  That does not mean that there isn't some truth to what people are saying about wheat in some contexts.   Did you look at the article I posted that did have citations and nicely digested discussion about how the current form of wheat is not the same as the ancient grains?

                       

                      There are also studies out there that say that once you eliminate wheat, you also stop the need for anti-gliadin antibodies (which is what doctors will test for, and why you can't be tested after being GF for a period) and also your gut heals.  It would not surprise me then that a bunch of gluten to the system would be a bigger shock than someone who has never given it up - your body has healed and changed from when you were eating gluten.

                       

                      Here's another interesting article:

                      http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1954879/

                      "The data obtained in this pilot study support the hypothesis that gluten elicits its harmful effect, throughout an IL15 innate immune response, on all the individuals."

                       

                      But, whatever.

                       

                       

                       

                      Thanks for the links. I read all of the abstracts, but what claims in the original article do they support?

                       

                      Here are a few claims I would like to see supported...

                       

                      - "Modern wheat really isn't wheat at all"

                      - "There are as many health risks associated with the consumption of wheat as there are nutritional benefits claimed by the wheat industry."

                      - Followup to the above: what are the quantified risks vs. the quantified benefits?

                      - "All nutrient content of modern wheat depreciated more than 30% in its natural unrefined state compared to its ancestral genetic line."

                      - Wheat causes neurological impairment, dementia, heart disease, cataracts, diabetes, arthritis and visceral fat accumulation

                      - "The body does not recognize processed wheat as food."

                      - Wheat is "a health damaging grain that will not benefit, advance or even maintain your health in any way."

                       

                      The articles you posted above talk about how different varieties of wheat are either more or less likely to cause celiac disease, a condition that affects less than 1% of the world's population, and possibly far less than 1%.

                       

                      More entertaining reading from the same website...try reading this for a laugh:

                       

                      http://www.wakingtimes.com/2013/01/19/truth-or-denial-in-the-age-of-information-overload/

                       

                      Quote: "Vibrationally and spiritually things are even crazier as the Matrix and its inter-dimensional minions furiously fight against the natural progression of change and advancing energetic waves of Truth our world is experiencing."

                       


                      flatland mountaineer

                        Some good discussion here and reason and good science seems to have prevailed. I am a hard red winter wheat grower, the bread kind and so I might have some bias but the gluten free movemnet really hasn't made any significant  dent in wheat demand so far IMHO. The whole Atkins diet thing had some effect but lately Mother Nature has been wreaking havoc on wheat growing areas of the world and the reduced supply thing has overshadowed any minor dietary changes to the us population as a whole and so many parts of the world are so food and carb deficient. We have grown wheat probably continuously for 108 years on our farm, while not our main crop and we are not big wheat farmers but during my tenure our farm has grown enough wheat for 45-50 million loaves of bread. Like I said we primarly grow Hard Red Winter class of wheat but I have grown hard white wheat under a specialty flour contract for Papa Johns Pizza and also produced hybrid soft red winter wheat under contract for sale as seed for the central corn belt. The hybrid wheats failed to produce any greater yield for the added cost of seed production and have gone away unlike hybrid corn. As far as gmo there are no commercially available wheat varities grown with gmo traits. There is one glyphosate tolerance (roundup ready) trait that has been introduced to wheat but it provides little value to growers as it takes away our primary means of volumteer wheat control in no-til situations and there are other ways both cultural and chemical to control grass type weeds very close to wheat genetically especially feral rye and jointed goatgrass and has not been advanced as a commercial varitety. As a grower we primarily select seed on yield  for the conditions we expect to encounter on a particular field in a particular yield. Wheat is disease susceptable especially to fungal diseases and to a lesser extent some viral diseases. Most of the fungal diseases, rusts and mildews seem to adapt and seed breeders try to stay one step ahead which is quite the challange as all new wheats are bred in conventional ways, most of the viral stuff can be controlled through cultural practices. I am guessing most of our hard red wheats can be traced back to Turkey Red an "heirloom variety" brought to this countryfrom European settlers on the plains. Land grant university plots often have Turkey Red in test plots with more modern varietis and it is usually at the bottom in yield and guessing not so good in milling and baking qualities either. The millers and bakers want what they want to get a consistant product and will blend wheat from different areas to get it. Gluten is the "glue" that holds the dough together and it really doesn't make sense that the bakers need higher levels than in the past, again consistancy is key. Gluten is a protein and how it relates to total protein content I'll have to put that question to the breeeders I get to visit with annually at seed field days. Every load of wheat that we send to market gets protein checked  and binned with like wheat, generally 11.5 to 12 pro is what is wanted by the millers and bakers . Low soil fertility results in 8-9 pro and there is still a portion of hrw wheat growers use no fertilizer. Rain after wheat is mature and ready for harvest can drop pro levels 1-2 percent. We can usually provide 12 pro with normal weather, sometimes higher when hit by drought stress as the plant has the same level of available nitrogen for less grain and introgen =protein. I said growers primarily select on yield but if we do not meet the quality factors desired by the millers and bakers we are hit and hit hard by discounts. Genreally within a crop year in the HRW belt from TX to SD there is enough variety to satisfy baking requirements even though some growers might get steep discounts and a few will get premiums. Discounts are much more common. None of this has really changed during my tenure here and guess I have been hauling wheat to town since 1974. In summary I really don't think our product has changed that much through the years other than becoming more consistant. I don't doubt that celiacs have severe problems with wheat products and no doubt as a carb wheat products have effects on blood sugar. Anecdotally I am of the wonder bread generation (grew up in the 60's) the most refined probably of them all I am guessing that in its most popular times childhood obesity and diabetes rates were much lower than todays. Hopefully common sense and moderation prevail as there is no crop more adapted to our harsh high plains climate. The notion that gluten is universally bad has been exacerbated by marketrs lableing products gluten free that never ever contained wheat gluten and never will. One thing I am sure is for certain authors of trendy books like "Wheat Belly: etcetera probably have made more more off one book than my dad did in a whole decade of wheat production combined even using inflation adjusted dollars..........

                        The whole world said I shoulda used red but it looked good to Charlene in John Deere Green!!

                        Support Ethanol, drink the best, burn the rest.

                        Run for fun? What the hell kind of recreation is that?  quote from Back to the Fut III


                        old woman w/hobby

                          r2farm - I enjoyed reading your comments.

                          Now I feel the need to bake bread Smile

                          steph  

                           

                          OCD  If you don't laugh...   


                          Oh roo roooo!

                            r2farm, thanks for the very informative post!  Great to hear a wheat grower's direct account.  As the daughter of dairy farmers, I wish you all the luck in the world; farming is a tough, tough way to make a living.

                             

                            Best wishes.

                              r2farm - I enjoyed reading your comments.

                              Now I feel the need to bake bread Smile

                               

                              This thread inspired me to make bread once, this week. Now, I need more.

                              skygazer


                                "....the most refined probably of them all I am guessing that in its most popular times childhood obesity and diabetes rates were much lower than todays...."

                                 

                                That is so true, r2farm. And thanks for giving 1st hand info (for other things in the post too).

                                 

                                I came from SE Asia where the population, like most of the developing world, is getting ever more fatter. But really, people are actually eating much less rice/carbs (from government published statistics for the agricultural sector) than before because they get their nutrition now more from other food sources.

                                 

                                As stop eating wheat and knees are getting better. Just weight loss can do that to you (in case you stopped eating wheat product but didn't substitute them with other food). It happened to my dad who was not even overweight to begin with. But some unintended weight loss cured his knees. It was less than 10# loss. He now has no complaint about his knees.