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| Support or not to support, that is the question. (Read 382 times) |
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posted: 5/9/2008 at 6:58 PM
modified: 5/9/2008 at 6:58 PM |
| Just getting back to the forums after leaving Coolrunning (They "fixed" that which did not need fixing). Forgive the length of this post but hopefully someone has been through something similar and can share their experience. I ran for 2 years about 12-15 miles per week (3 days/week) in neutral shoes and never had any physical problems. Last year I wanted to increase my training and add some races so I got professionally fitted at a running store and was told that I over-pronate and needed stability shoes. I tried Nike Air Triaxx and eventually Brooks Adrenalines and both caused inside shin splints. I also noticed that my footstrike was louder in the stability shoes - noticeably slapping the pavement. I never was able to increase mileage much b/c the shin splints set right in. It got to the point where walking hurt. I saw an ortho specialist (who is also an experienced marathon runner) and he said my arches were a bit low but not too bad and that I didn't need stability shoes. With his advice, I ran a 7.2 mile road race last year in Asics 1120s with Spenco arch supports. It helped but soreness lingered. I took a lot of time off to completely heal. I started again very slowly (2 and 3 mile runs) in the 1120s with arch supports and the shin pain came back. So, now I'm back to neutral Asics with no arch supports and gradually getting towards 20 miles/week. I still have inside shin soreness that goes away about a mile or two in and I feel it the next day. Things are better but the soreness just won't go away completely. I've only run back-to-back days once and was OK but I usually need a day or two to let my shins recover. My left ankle is definitely rolling in a bit but my knees and hips are aligned perfectly. I never have hip, knee or back pain. The running store experts say I'm a tough fit. I'm diligent about stretching, calf raises, toe raises, shin stretches, etc. I seem to be stuck in between not enough support (neutrals) and too much support (stability shoes). I just started breaking in a pair of Asics Landreths. Thanks for reading. Just wondering if anyone else has been caught in between this particular rock and hard place. Lastly, the only other difference between this year and last year is that I did a lot of weight lifting over the winter and added about 7 or 8 lbs. |
Goal: drop from 186lb to 165lbs
Current weight: 168lbs
2008 Running goals:
runing pain free
59:59 in trhe Charles Rivah Run (7.5 miles) Actual: 58:21
1:59:59 in the BAA Half Marathon
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| view log I did it! |
posted: 5/9/2008 at 7:09 PM |
are you running down hill much?
Perhaps you are overstriding? Running too fast?
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2008 goals
Cleveland Marathon < 3:59:59 3:38:48sub 22:00 5k 20:46 HH firecracker 5000- PR in the 15k this fall
- Have more fun = run more
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| view log Cicada Killer |
posted: 5/9/2008 at 7:36 PM |
| You may want to run a few miels on grass/trail. |
| Run until the trail runs out |
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| view log House Master |
posted: 5/9/2008 at 7:37 PM |
Did you try on a 2130?
They are good for a foot that needs a little bit of stability but not a full motion control shoe. |
| The Gaijin Samurai. a.k.a The attorney dissin' attorney.
Read and Listen
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posted: 5/9/2008 at 7:42 PM |
| Quote from jsobo119 on 5/9/2008 at 7:09 PM: are you running down hill much?
Perhaps you are overstriding? Running too fast?
Thanks for the reply. Don't think I'm over-striding. I feel like I'm in balance and my feet are landing right under me. When I over-stride I slap the pavement and the front of my shins feel it. I avoid hills as much as I can. But you pose a good question. What is good technique for when I do run downhill? What I try to do is just increase the number of strides - basically picking them up and putting them down quicker to take advantage of the downhill without over-striding. I have a 10-k run tomorrow which will tell me a lot. That will put me at 18 miles for the week - all in the new Landreths. So far, they feel good although they feel a little bit harder than the 1120s. |
Goal: drop from 186lb to 165lbs
Current weight: 168lbs
2008 Running goals:
runing pain free
59:59 in trhe Charles Rivah Run (7.5 miles) Actual: 58:21
1:59:59 in the BAA Half Marathon
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posted: 5/9/2008 at 7:46 PM |
| Quote from DJ Marcus on 5/9/2008 at 7:37 PM: Did you try on a 2130?
They are good for a foot that needs a little bit of stability but not a full motion control shoe.
Thanks. The guy at the running store told me they were pretty similar to the stability shoes that gave me problems. They don't allow me to pronate enough and I end up slapping the pavement and shocking my shins. I'm giving the Landreths a few more miles and I can go back to try those if these don't work out.
I do run a little on grass, dirt but I'm in the suburbs and there's not a lot of grass running trails. I stay on the pavement and away from the concrete though. I'll keep rubbing the dixie-cup ice packs on  . |
Goal: drop from 186lb to 165lbs
Current weight: 168lbs
2008 Running goals:
runing pain free
59:59 in trhe Charles Rivah Run (7.5 miles) Actual: 58:21
1:59:59 in the BAA Half Marathon
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finney Resident pinniped |
posted: 5/10/2008 at 3:03 AM
modified: 5/10/2008 at 3:07 AM |
I had this problem FOREVER.
I have hypermobile feet, which means that I have a normal arch when sitting down, but when my feet are being used for what feet are used for, arch goes bye bye. So essentially I was snapping my post tib tendon like a rubber band with every step.
Pronation might not be your problem. I actually don't overpronate THAT much. I mean, I do, obviously, but not as much as one might think. Your issue might not be pronation but arch support, and the Spenco ones might not be doing enough for you. Also some people are just really touchy and injury prone. I have to increase milage ridiculously slow or I get overuse injuries as well, just like you.
I also second running too fast. Even if you don't think you are, you might be. Try slowing down, even if you think you don't need to, and see if it helps. If it doesn't, I'd go to a podiatrist and see if custom made arch supports aren't what you need. Also, stretching might be adding to your problem. I quit doing it and just do a very thorough, gentle warm up and I get less aches, pains, and strains now than when I stretched.
You've also found a common problem with stability shoes - lack of cushioning and responsiveness. They work great for some people, but I personally would rather quit running if it was a choice between that and running in stability shoes. They just do NOT work for me. |
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posted: 5/12/2008 at 12:49 PM |
| Thank you everyone for the great posts, VERY helpful. I love the comment about "hypermobile" feet. That does kinda describe me. I'm new to this site and it's terrific to get such great feedback. Saturday's run pretty much sucked. My shins hurt and my lower legs in general felt heavy and tired. Took Sunday off, and only did 30 light minutes on the elliptical this am. Gonna try a 3-4 mile run tomorrow morning in the Landreths - this time with the Spenco arch supports. I adjusted them yesterday and we'll see how it goes. If it continues, I may see the doc again and think about a custom arch support. Thanks again everyone! |
Goal: drop from 186lb to 165lbs
Current weight: 168lbs
2008 Running goals:
runing pain free
59:59 in trhe Charles Rivah Run (7.5 miles) Actual: 58:21
1:59:59 in the BAA Half Marathon
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I run for Peanut Butter! |
posted: 5/12/2008 at 2:33 PM |
Oh I'm so sorry to hear about what you're going through EGH3. I wish I had a strong solution, but I definitely sympathize. I was once mistakenly sold a motion control shoe which I ran in until I started having knee pain for the first time ever. Further video gait analysis showed me as a very neutral, almost supinating runner - and my switch to the correct shoe changed my running life.
I hope you find the right combination very soon. |
~ Fly ~
Only as much as I dream can I be.
veggies on the run
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posted: 5/13/2008 at 1:20 PM |
| 4.8 miles this morning with NO shin pain. NO soreness after either. Felt great! Comments here helped. I put the Spenco arch supports back in my Asics Landreths and felt great. Made a conscious effort to not overstride and landed more mid-foot and felt very comfortable. The stability shoes just feel hard and don't work. The soft, cushy Asics with a little extra arch support seemed to do the trick. No I just have to be patient and not try to do too much when I feel good and screw myself up. Thanks again to everyone that responded, you all helped me! |
Goal: drop from 186lb to 165lbs
Current weight: 168lbs
2008 Running goals:
runing pain free
59:59 in trhe Charles Rivah Run (7.5 miles) Actual: 58:21
1:59:59 in the BAA Half Marathon
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| view log HTFU, knees! |
posted: 5/13/2008 at 2:55 PM |
Ahhh...I have some familiarity with neutral shoes not being quite enough, but moderate stability shoes being too stiff and too controlling--as well as the arch issues that Finney discussed. I also have arches that look normal, but flatten right out when I put weight on my feet. In addition to adding insoles with more of an arch "bump" (Sof Sole "Arch" insoles...soft, no stability/control) I have found that lightweight stability trainers work very well for me. They tend to be much more flexible through the forefoot and have softer cushion. So maybe something like the Asics DS Trainer or NB 903 would be shoes worth trying.
I also ran briefly in a pair of Saucony Progrid Guides which were perfect in terms of flexibility, cushion, and mild overpronation control, but the top of the heel tab area came up too high and rubbed my achilles area raw--aside from that fit issue on my particular foot/heel shape it was a fantastic shoe for one who only needs just the slightest bit of medial support. Definitely something that might work for you if you need *some* support. They also had very nice arch support, so I didn't even need an aftermarket insole. |
Kirsten
• Ladies Locker Room •
.: 2008 Goals :.
• Get down to 123#s and STAY there!
• Run 1500 miles
• Run 1st marathon - Milwaukee Lakefront - in my home state of WI < 4:30
• PRs: 5k ~ 15k ~ 25k
• HTFU |
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