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New Here..Question about running paired with weight training (Read 397 times)

     

    Squats don't do jack squat for helping you run. 

     

    ISWYDT.

    Dave

    scappodaqui


    rather be sprinting

      That's pretty hardcore!  I see that your lifting is  more like bodybuilder splits (though I like most of your movements--always need some rows and presses, squats and deadlifts) rather than running-specific, for the most part, so I can certainly see how it could conflict with your running.  Do you really find that body part splits (more often used while bulking, I believe) work well for you while you lose weight?  As, after all, you won't really attain muscle growth in the groups you are training if you are eating at a deficit.

       

      What rep ranges are you using?  Lemme guess, 8-12....

       

      As for that dumbo who keeps crashing threads and claiming the only way to get better at running is to run, I just give up at this point.  You will never convince me that the ability to output more force per pound bodyweight has no bearing on speed.  Sure, long-distance runners don't want to spend all their time in the weight room, obviously.  But most runners, especially those who want to race the mile or shorter, will get huge benefit from lifts like squatting, step ups, lunges, deadlifts, glute ham raises, power cleans, and more, and lifting about twice a week.

       

       

      It's a tough balancing act but I seem to make it work.  Right now I work a M-F 9-5 and I am part time in my last semester of my Master's so here is what my schedule looks like.

       

      Monday:  Lunch Time - Chest - Bench, Incline, decline, flies.

                     Class (6-9), Then Run 6-9miles

      Tuesday: Lunch Time - Shoulders - Clean and presses, front raises, lateral raises, reverse pec, shrugs.

                      After work:  Track workout (VO2 max workout, or tempoish intervals) with 2-4 miles up, 2-4 miles down.

      Wednesday: Lunch Time - Back  & Core- Deads, pulldowns or pull ups, seated rows, dumbell rows, face pulls, Core - Leg Raises, Reverse crunches, medicine ball tosses on decline.

                          After work:  Midweek Long Run typically 10 miles.

      Thursday:  Lunch time - Day off from lifting

                        After work: Tempo Run/Fartlek  2 miles up, 1 down then variable distance.

      Friday:        Lunch Time - Bis& Tris + Core

                        After work:  6-8 miles easy

      Saturday:  Morning - Long run 12-15 miles

                        After run and eating something:  Legs - Squats, Leg Press, Leg Curls, Leg Extensions

      Sunday:     Anytime:  5-7 miles easy.

       

      That's the general gist of it.  I move weight lifting days around a little bit sometimes to fit my schedule.  I'll be honest, I've been known to skip my leg day after my run lol.  I just find it hard to fit in anywhere else without my runs suffering.  I also alternate my Long Run between Saturdays and Sundays.  I move them to Saturdays whenever I decide I need a Saturday night to unwind and have a few (or dozen drinks).

       

      Doing all this sucked at first.  But it's been about 8 months now and it's starting to become part of me.

      PRs: 5k 19:25, mile 5:38, HM 1:30:56

      Lifting PRs: back squat 176 lb

        I have no issues with lifting weights and running. I cut back on heavy lifting if I'm training for a big race. I love squats and continue to do them all the time. I feel the squats help strenghthen my core (quads, hams, hips, gluteus and abs). All important to help reduce the risk of injury. When I'm sprinting to the finish line at full speed, I feel the power in my legs. I believe that power comes from years of squats.

         

          Actually, I kind of adapted a mix between a bodybuilder's splits/What I use to do in football/and some cross functional lifts.  The guy that owns my gym is a competitive bodybuilder and has written me up a 5 week cycle that was in the 8-12 rep range ,but I didn't care for it too much when I was finished.

           

          So I've kind of fallen into a pyramiding type of rep range: 2 weeks 12, 10, 8 6 -- 2 weeks 8, 8, 8, 8 -- 2 weeks 5,5,5,5 -- 2 weeks -- 3,3,3,3. But I only use this rep range for certain lifts:  Chest (bench, incline, decline), Cleans, Squats, Deads.  A lot of time for cleans squats and deads I skip the 12, 10,8,6 week and do an additional week at 5,5,5,5 because I feel these exercises are not meant for high rep range.  Also, I don't stick strictly to EXACTLY what I said for each week:  So for bench I try to engage my core by doing dumbells on a stability ball, instead of pressing after my cleans I'll do handstand pushups. and  Sometimes for legs I do prowler pushes.  All my accessory lifts are in the 8-12 rep range (e.g. curls, dips, rows, etc.).

           

          I do agree with certain people that a lot of this lifting is not necessarily going to directly improve my running, but it sure has helped keep me from injury and I can definitely tell a difference in some areas of my running.   I can tell that the back and core exercises have helped my posture while running, I don't ever feel like I'm slouching at the end of my long runs.  I also, feel more explosive in general.

           

          I mean for shorter to mid-distance (100m-800m)I think lifting can be even more beneficial.  What do they say, "The bigger the race, the smaller the guy"?  But I definitely agree with you about the lifting twice a week for legs.  I think for running specifically, if you could introduce alternating leg lifts like Bulgarian squats, and lunges this not only helps keep from injury but also works out muscle imbalances.

           

          I would not say that what I do is conducive to my long distance running, but I am still trying to figure out where my goals are.  My original goals were just to be a very cross functionally fit athlete but honestly, I'm a 185 lb long distance running, lol.   I'm coming to find out that maybe I am a better long distance runner than I am as a lifter.  My CURRENT ability in the weight room is not very impressive (Bench: 235, Squat: 315, Dead: 405).  It makes me sad when I remember what i used to be able to do when I played football.

           

          What I would say about what I do is that it served my original goals about being cross-functionally fit: Respectable lifts, with a recent 1:24:59 half, and 37:35 10K.  And I've only been running for 7 month.  Also, all of the lifting definitely helped maintain muscle mass while melting off fat while I ran.

           

          That's pretty hardcore!  I see that your lifting is  more like bodybuilder splits (though I like most of your movements--always need some rows and presses, squats and deadlifts) rather than running-specific, for the most part, so I can certainly see how it could conflict with your running.  Do you really find that body part splits (more often used while bulking, I believe) work well for you while you lose weight?  As, after all, you won't really attain muscle growth in the groups you are training if you are eating at a deficit.

           

          What rep ranges are you using?  Lemme guess, 8-12....

           

          As for that dumbo who keeps crashing threads and claiming the only way to get better at running is to run, I just give up at this point.  You will never convince me that the ability to output more force per pound bodyweight has no bearing on speed.  Sure, long-distance runners don't want to spend all their time in the weight room, obviously.  But most runners, especially those who want to race the mile or shorter, will get huge benefit from lifts like squatting, step ups, lunges, deadlifts, glute ham raises, power cleans, and more, and lifting about twice a week.

           


          Old , Ugly and slow

            Jkutz1 that is pretty good running at your weight after only 7 months.

             

            I like lifting heavy but I only run for health.

             

            At my age I like doing full body workouts and only lifting about twice a week.

            first race sept 1977 last race sept 2007

             

            2014goals   1300  miles  , 190 pounds , deadlift 400 touch my toes

            scappodaqui


            rather be sprinting

              JKUTZ, that is awesome!  You really do have running talent with those times on that training.  Kind of reminds me of what I did when I began running.  I had a weightlifting background and it only took about 8 months for me to run under 20 for 5k, and soon after that my current PR for HM.  I'm better at sprinting than distance, though.  You seem to have amazing endurance--that's incredible to have developed in such a short time frame.

               

              Your rep scheme seems right on, I was wondering about that.  I periodise my lifts--not always linear but I switch up rep ranges.  Aim for 1-5 as I head toward a peak for short track races.  And also I do higher reps for the single-leg exercises since, due to the balance component, I can't load them up with as much raw weight.  You know?

               

              Also, being female, I think I get to be exempt from caring about my biceps as much, so I rarely if ever train bis and tris directly... chinups and rows and presses hit them enough.

              PRs: 5k 19:25, mile 5:38, HM 1:30:56

              Lifting PRs: back squat 176 lb

                Thanks!  Your times are pretty good, and now I saw you said female that even makes them more impressive! Your probably finishing toward the top of the pack.

                 

                I am still trying to figure out what I'm best at.  I don't have enough races to really know.  My 5K PR came back in June a week after I came off a 1:34 half so I'm excited to see If I can get that in the 17s in December.  I also, got the Philly half coming up Nov 17th, which I'm hoping to hit a 1:22ish.  And I actually just signed up for my first full, hopefully I can maintain this type of training into June.

                 

                I've thought about cutting out bi's and tri's, I kind of just use them as a filler day, and It in know way really helps me anywhere else. I can definitely agree with you that I you hit them more thin enough in other exercises. I run in a club and there are a lot of very competitive women distance runners and you couldn't drag them into the weight room.  Good for you that you do, I think it helps a lot.  Keep up the good work!

                JKUTZ, that is awesome!  You really do have running talent with those times on that training.  Kind of reminds me of what I did when I began running.  I had a weightlifting background and it only took about 8 months for me to run under 20 for 5k, and soon after that my current PR for HM.  I'm better at sprinting than distance, though.  You seem to have amazing endurance--that's incredible to have developed in such a short time frame.

                 

                Your rep scheme seems right on, I was wondering about that.  I periodise my lifts--not always linear but I switch up rep ranges.  Aim for 1-5 as I head toward a peak for short track races.  And also I do higher reps for the single-leg exercises since, due to the balance component, I can't load them up with as much raw weight.  You know?

                 

                Also, being female, I think I get to be exempt from caring about my biceps as much, so I rarely if ever train bis and tris directly... chinups and rows and presses hit them enough.

                NHLA


                  Find a PT that is a lifter and a runner. I used Body by Jennifer. Lifting and running can work together.

                  Hard leg work will mess up your running for a day or two so do leg work before rest days.

                  PT said if I could run Glassy Mt in 21 min I did not have to do leg work. Glassy is so steep its not running its leg work.

                  Lifting will help you run tall in long races. When I don't lift I start slumping over after about 16 miles.

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