Hansons vs. Pfitzinger (Read 2467 times)

Ric-G


    Great summary. I have used the standard Hanson plans and have gone through the Pfitz book some. I am a lower mileage runner, but have felt relatively strong using Hanson the last couple of marathons. Your comparison is a welcome addition.

    marathon pr - 3:16

    nickshawn


    Sir Mix a Lot

      I would be very interested to hear the details of this plan. Where on their website do you get custom plans?

       

       

      Someone else posted a link before I got back here but I'd be glad to email you the plan if you want to take a look at it and compare. Not a lot of time tonight (forgot DD1 had a basketball game) but here is a rough breakdown on how the plan is structured.

       

      Mon - 10-13 miles with some type of interval workout

      Tue - 6-8 easy

      Wed - 10-16 with either a progression or MP run, several of which are 10 @ MP

      Thur - 6-10 easy

      Fri - 8-10 easy

      Sat - 16 (1st 2 weeks) to 20 (6 weeks in a row prior to taper),  6 weeks of 18

      Sun - 8-10 easy

       

      Lowest mileage week - week 1 - 66 miles

      Highest mileage week - week 10 and 12 at 80, four other weeks at 75+

      Jan26.2


        Great summary. I have used the standard Hanson plans and have gone through the Pfitz book some. I am a lower mileage runner, but have felt relatively strong using Hanson the last couple of marathons. Your comparison is a welcome addition.

         

         

         

        Did you top out at a 16 mile long run when you used the standard Hanson plans? I'm also what I guess is considered a lower mileage runner for marathon training (high 40s-low 50s) mpw. Last marathon I did three 20 milers and mentally it helped tremendously, My husband, who trained with me, felt beat up for a few days after each 20 miler. He handles higher weekly mileage ok though. I'm wondering if the Hanson's beginner plan might be good for him next time.

        PR's: 5k - 23:33/ 10k - 48:30/ 5 mi. - 39:21/ 13.1 - 1:53/ 26.2 recent - 4:34

         

        Upcoming races: Resolution Run HM 1/1/13

                                    Phoenix R&R    HM 1/20/13

          Article from McMillan regarding speed buildup first or last. Don't remember seeing this anywhere else.

          Ric-G


            Did you top out at a 16 mile long run when you used the standard Hanson plans? I'm also what I guess is considered a lower mileage runner for marathon training (high 40s-low 50s) mpw. Last marathon I did three 20 milers and mentally it helped tremendously, My husband, who trained with me, felt beat up for a few days after each 20 miler. He handles higher weekly mileage ok though. I'm wondering if the Hanson's beginner plan might be good for him next time.

            I used the boilerplate plans a couple of times. I never did 20 milers at all. The most I did was 18. For the others I did do 16-17. Don't know if it mattered. I was more concerned with keeping with the entire plan the best I could. For me, that mid week 10 mile MP run was important. I claim no expertise in any of this but will say I felt stronger at the end of my marathons using this method. I ended up with a barely BQ which I never really thought was possible especially with lower mileage relative to most others. If the 20 milers help mentally that's great. I do think the program as whole does matter more than the 20 milers.

            marathon pr - 3:16

              Article from McMillan regarding speed buildup first or last. Don't remember seeing this anywhere else.

               

              It says " This program follows your normal base-building phase, but is before your six to eight week marathon-specific phase." So they're really talking about doing a bit of speed work in the period a couple of months out from the marathon. A lot of popular marathon plans have that kind of thing.

              Jan26.2


                I used the boilerplate plans a couple of times. I never did 20 milers at all. The most I did was 18. For the others I did do 16-17. Don't know if it mattered. I was more concerned with keeping with the entire plan the best I could. For me, that mid week 10 mile MP run was important. I claim no expertise in any of this but will say I felt stronger at the end of my marathons using this method. I ended up with a barely BQ which I never really thought was possible especially with lower mileage relative to most others. If the 20 milers help mentally that's great. I do think the program as whole does matter more than the 20 milers.

                 

                 

                Thanks for the info. It sounds like it worked well for you, and after reading the book their philosophy makes total sense. We might have to give it a try for our fall marathon.

                PR's: 5k - 23:33/ 10k - 48:30/ 5 mi. - 39:21/ 13.1 - 1:53/ 26.2 recent - 4:34

                 

                Upcoming races: Resolution Run HM 1/1/13

                                            Phoenix R&R    HM 1/20/13

                Longboat


                Letting off steam

                  Great comparison of plans, bhearn.  

                  To me the Hanson's plans just make sense. Several years ago I started restricting my long run to less than 30% of weekly mileage, building up the mid-week and marathon pace runs.  That got me to the starting line healthy after several cycles than ended in injury.  I struggled with Pfitz 70mpw; even when I got through the full program, I was flat for the taper and it never came back for the race.  


                  I've read the Hanson's Plan book (several times over now) and will follow the advanced plan (probably + a few miles) for the next cycle.  

                   

                  Although... I do like some races along the way... 

                  Neil

                  ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

                  Nearly back to 100% 6 months after Achilles surgery. Now at 35 50 mpw.

                  Base building time!


                  Smashy!!!

                     Why the 18-20 miler LRs when their staplke is no LR longer than 16?

                     Jedi, 

                    Theyre not against 18-20 mile LRs per SE. They are against the LR being overemphasized in one's training. They argue it should not be more than 25-30% of total weekly volume. For the Beginner and Advanced plans in the book that works out to about 16 miles for the LR. Once you start going above that--say, to 80 mpw--the LR increases. 

                    PRs: 21:35 (5K); 1:46:46 (HM); 4:30:46 (FM)

                    xor


                      Well hello Cbus.

                       

                      jedigunnie26.2


                      BQ in 2013

                         Jedi, 

                        Theyre not against 18-20 mile LRs per SE. They are against the LR being overemphasized in one's training. They argue it should not be more than 25-30% of total weekly volume. For the Beginner and Advanced plans in the book that works out to about 16 miles for the LR. Once you start going above that--say, to 80 mpw--the LR increases. 

                         

                        Thanks for clarification! That makes sense though. I think the custom plans have higher mile LRs in 19-20 once you get in that 80mpw range.

                        PR's - 5K - 20:15 (2013) | 10K - 45:14 (2011)  | 13.1 - 1:34:40 (2013)  | 26.2 - 3:47:47 (2012)

                         

                        2013 Goals - 3000 miles (940m May'13) | sub20 5k | sub 43 10K  | sub1:35 13.1 | sub 3:15 26.2

                         

                        2013

                        Saginaw 5k - 1/19/13 - 20:15 PR

                        Chambersburg Half Marathon - 3/9/13 - 1:36:22 PR

                        Frederick Half Marathon - 5/5/13 - 1:34:40 PR

                         

                        Up Next:

                        Shippensburg Fair 5k - 7/27/13

                        RnR Philadelphia Half Marathon - 9/15/13

                        Philadelphia Marathon - 11/17/13


                        Smashy!!!

                          Thanks for clarification! That makes sense though. I think the custom plans have higher mile LRs in 19-20 once you get in that 80mpw range.

                           In the book, the author presents his training plan, which goes into triple digit weekly miles. And let me tell you, the dude is not stranger to 20+ milers. 

                           

                          SRL, well hello to you sir! 

                          PRs: 21:35 (5K); 1:46:46 (HM); 4:30:46 (FM)


                          Smashy!!!

                            Sweet Jesus, 120 at MP.  At the end of the plan, you know what that pace feels like.

                             

                            Does Hanson (sorry, "Does Hansons" just looks weird) offer up any tea/ti leaf guidance on how best to guesstimate this pace?  Tables a la Daniels? 

                             

                            The Hansons have you do all those MP miles for another, specifically physiological, reason. They say you gain oxygen economy at a designated pace with more miles run at that pace. So all of those MP runs are intended to make you oxygen efficient on race day. Pfitz either doesn't buy this or minimizes it's importance.

                             

                            Another thing about the term "tempo." according to Daniels, a tempo run is supposed to be run at "tempo pace" (or a pace that can be sustained for an hour) for 20 minutes or so. If you go longer than 20 minutes, you are supposed to slow it down by 10 sec or so. The longer the run, the slower it gets, until you get to an hour or so at MP. Hansons' tempo follows these guidelines. Pfitz however doesn't. He has you do them at Half oe even 15k pace, even when they get long. And as the OP said, he takes you up to 7 miles. That's brutal. If you don't get injured, then you will have to take an extra day or two to recover--and that's what the Hansons try to avoid with the structure of their plan. If you don't, then you might end up overtained. 

                             

                            Last thing, it's HansonS because there are two of them, Kevin and Keith Hanson. So grammatically its "Do Hansons" or "Do the Hansons."

                            PRs: 21:35 (5K); 1:46:46 (HM); 4:30:46 (FM)


                            Bad Ass

                              The Hansons have you do all those MP miles for another, specifically physiological, reason. They say you gain oxygen economy at a designated pace with more miles run at that pace. So all of those MP runs are intended to make you oxygen efficient on race day. Pfitz either doesn't buy this or minimizes it's importance.

                               

                              Another thing about the term "tempo." according to Daniels, a tempo run is supposed to be run at "tempo pace" (or a pace that can be sustained for an hour) for 20 minutes or so. If you go longer than 20 minutes, you are supposed to slow it down by 10 sec or so. The longer the run, the slower it gets, until you get to an hour or so at MP. Hansons' tempo follows these guidelines. Pfitz however doesn't. He has you do them at Half oe even 15k pace, even when they get long. And as the OP said, he takes you up to 7 miles. That's brutal. If you don't get injured, then you will have to take an extra day or two to recover--and that's what the Hansons try to avoid with the structure of their plan. If you don't, then you might end up overtained. 

                               

                              Last thing, it's HansonS because there are two of them, Kevin and Keith Hanson. So grammatically its "Do Hansons" or "Do the Hansons."

                               

                              I can imagine the music to "Do the Hustle" for these names.

                               

                              I don't think it's that Pfitz minimizes it's importance; he sounds like running that much at MP would interfere with recovery and most of all, does not create as much endurance as his workouts would.  I already did Pfitz and even with asthma got a 6-7 minute PR.  When I try Hanson, I'm going to see how much I can PR with it and see whether I get the results I want.

                              Damaris, Marathon Maniac, Ultra Runner

                              Blog

                              "The most powerful weapon on earth is the human soul on fire."

                              xor


                                I know there's two (brag: I have met them); my "does" was in reference to the plan that Bob was cross comparing.  What I should have said was "Does the Hanson plan" or "Does the Hansons' plan", but I am lazy.