Running with the sub-3s -- ut oh (Read 2031 times)


Interval Junkie --Nobby

    The local community coach runs a marathon training program (MTP).  It's is open to all and caters to everyone from the C25K graduates to BQers.  For first timers the generic (and sagely) goal is "Just complete" after that it's usually PR with sub 4hrs.  Coach's stated main goal is for people not to get hurt -- and as he's serving a very large and varied community, this is wise.  However, after reading a friend's training plan last year I decided not to participate because I thought Coach was too conservative.  Boy was I wrong . . . 

     

    I've been running speed workouts on Wednesdays with Coach and a growing community of local runners. It has done wonders, as I mentioned elsewhere.  It's also the highpoint of my week.  Nothing like grinding out a few intervals with people sweating just as hard as you are.

     

    Because of this good experience with the Wednesday workout, I decided to join the MTP.  If anyway, it would give me new places to run around town.  New places sprinkled with gatorade and water-jugs on Saturday morning.  Company for a long run might also be nice every once in a while -- though I usually prefer to run alone.  Last weekend we beat-feet around a rural road with few cars and lots of shade.  I hit my stride with the 8:00 pace group and after 15 miles was well spent and surrounded by that easy-haze you get after a good run.

     

    Coach is backlogged on writing up custom marathon plans, so I've been using Pfitz's 18/70 for the first two weeks.  But Thursday morning I get a phone call from him to show up at the shop because, "[I'm] a bit of a special case."  I happened to have the day off, and needs new kicks anyway, so I head over to the shop.

     

    Once there the Coach confides in me that there's an inner circle to the MTP, of people with an eye on faster goals.  He'd like me to join that group.  I'm honored to get the call-up.  Very happy my workouts on Wednesday lead to me being identified as someone worthy of this honor.  But then he starts describing the group: "They're all sub-3 or on the verge of sub-3 marathoners."  Ut oh.

     

    So, this Saturday I'm to run 16mi with these guys at "Aerobic Heart Rate".   I ask what that means for the group:

     

    Coach: "About 7:20pace."

    Me: "Coach, that's 5 seconds off my marathon goal pace."

    Coach: "You're aiming for a 3:10, right?  Hmm, 10min is a pretty big difference." <beat>  "Yeah, but I think you're faster than that."

     

    Woah.  I had to walk over and pick my socks up from across the room -- completely blown off.  Of course, now I'm pretty intimidated.  Tomorrow, I'm going to hang with the group as long as I can -- I should say "as long as is reasonable" but I know myself better than that.

     

    And I thought this guy was too conservative for me?

     

    It's going to be an awesome Fall.

     

    MTA: change of title

    2014 Goals:  sub-3 Marathon 

    Current Status 08/28: Slowly working back up from a pelvic stress fracture.  4mil distance PR w00t!


    Consistently Slow

      Congrats on being tapped.Remember to train for the condition/shape/time you are in now.Not for the condition /shape/time

      you are aiming to hit.

      Run until the trail runs out.

      2013***1500 miles

      50 miler

      Race Less Train More

       

      Ana Trason  "Living Her Life"

      "The Marble in The Groove"

       

      unsolicited chatter

      http://bkclay.blogspot.com/

        That looks way off script for a Pfitz plan for you and, to me, those 10 minutes still feels like a big difference. Good luck with your race Saturday. 

        xor


          I have never been tapped.

           

          Good luck.  Dunno how you arrived at 3:10 nor how "Coach" (sorry, but it makes me think of Cheers and smile) came to where he is about what workouts you can handle... but yes, what an interesting experience to get to have.  Have fun with it.

           

            That looks way off script for a Pfitz plan for you and, to me, those 10 minutes still feels like a big difference. Good luck with your race Saturday. 

             Similar comment:

             

            1. It's training and exploring-your-limits time, so I say have at it and see what you learn. That said, 

             

            2. I ran into some friends on Saturday who were doing 8 at 6:50-7:10ish.  I let 'em go because I wanted to get my 15.  Point is: I'd figure out early-on in the workout if you think it's gonna work.  But, if you blow up, so what (see point 1)?

            "If you have the fire, run..." -John Climacus

              Congratz for getting tapped, and for good reasons!  (The only times I've gotten tapped was some groups needing a warm body)


              ultramarathon/triathlete

                Congrats!  There's nothing like being part of the "in" running group.  I bet you get even faster.   Nice work! 

                HTFU?  Why not!

                Coach: Empire Tri Club 

                Speed Coach: Brooklyn Tri Club
                USATF Coach

                DoppleBock


                  Do I know you ?

                   

                  MTP

                  (Mikey the Pig)

                   

                   I decided to join the MTP.

                  http://a-big-horse.blogspot.com/ 

                  2013 Goals ~ Mar < 3:00, 5M < 29, 10k < 35  

                   

                    Yeah, there's a big difference between (a) being able to stick with the group for 16mi and (b) being able to stick with the group for 16mi at the intended effort level.

                     

                    Cool that the guy sees more in you.  Hopefully, he has good vision.

                    “Everything you need is already inside.” -- Bill Bowerman

                      Lets make one thing perfectly clear: there is no "in" crowd in running.  We are all dorks.

                       

                      That said, I think the coach is right.

                      Runners run.

                        Congratz for getting tapped, and for good reasons!  (The only times I've gotten tapped was some groups needing a warm body)

                        In an infinite universe, the one thing sentient life cannot afford to have is a sense of proportion

                        http://htwins.net/scale2/scale2.swf?bordercolor=white&fb_source=message

                         

                         

                         

                          Great to be recognized like that by someone you respect!  Caveat - my experience is that it's much easier to be able to run too fast when you're trying to stay with the boys.  If you can do it you'll get faster, if you can't but still do it (you're too close to race effort, they're not) you run a significantly higher risk of injury.

                            Looks like you checked out when those guys started pushing it; a pretty good day's work for you.

                            "If you have the fire, run..." -John Climacus


                            Interval Junkie --Nobby

                              That looks way off script for a Pfitz plan for you and, to me, those 10 minutes still feels like a big difference. Good luck with your race Saturday. 

                               

                              Just got back and I'm pooped.  My goal was to stick with them for half the run and then go back to some 8s to finish out the 16.  Yesterday I was very tired because of things going on and crashed into bed at 8pm.  Woke at 4:45am, feeling decent but still a bit tired.

                               

                              The run was hilly, but that had no apparent effect on the group as they chatted through a 7:10-7:30 pace up the gravel road.  It was out of my comfort zone, for sure.  Comfortably hard?  I'm not really sure.  I was focused.  And able to interject short responses to questions. But I was working for it.

                               

                              I stuck with the pack up a hill around mi 6 that almost did me in -- even some of the chatter faded toward the top.  But I rallied and was able to solidly stick with the group through mile 8.  There was a menacing hill that began the 9th mile.  While I was sticking with the group I was pretty sure that to continue I'd need to start digging into 'race' mode.  But I'd hit my 8mi mark, and was happy to wave the group adios.  Good bunch of guys -- only one under 6ft, I think.  70s runner skinny with bulging calves.  They took off up the hill and eventually decided to take a detour to another very hilly part of the road; came back massaging their calves and winded.  It would have broke me.

                               

                              I had a little trouble hitting a pace after we parted.  I knew this might be a problem.  The hill was really taxing and I ended up walking part of it.  Then I struggled to reboot my legs into 8:10 pace.  Kept hitting 8:30s, and that's where my pace was.  I was down to high-easy effort.  There didn't seem to be a "comfortably hard" gear anymore -- it was high-easy or uncomfortably hard.  I decided not to push, hoping to find some pacers.

                               

                              Around mile 11 I found my pace-group from last-week.  They were still clicking away the 8:10s pretty comfortably.  I joined them and found my stride again.  Then, due to an event beyond my control, but one I thankfully fell into the trap of, I had to end my run at 14mi.

                               

                              So, not really what Pfitz would have recommended.  And while I would have liked to report that I stuck with them longer, or that the pace was easier, I'm just happy to have the wisdom not to muscle it out.  Looking forward to the day I can hang with them the whole way -- would be a fun group of guys to run with.

                               

                              I think I'll spend the day rolling out my calves.

                              2014 Goals:  sub-3 Marathon 

                              Current Status 08/28: Slowly working back up from a pelvic stress fracture.  4mil distance PR w00t!


                              Interval Junkie --Nobby

                                Looks like you checked out when those guys started pushing it; a pretty good day's work for you.

                                 

                                Yeah, they rolled at 7:10 up a long hill.  One guy looked down at his watch and said, "looks like we're a bit fast," without any real concern in his voice.  Meanwhile my head was screaming, "Jesus Christmas, 7:20 was 'a bit fast' -- you guys trying to kill me!"

                                 

                                Ah, well, I think I have my "Once A Runner" season ahead of me.  Feels like being a freshman trying out for the team.

                                 

                                Miles of trials.  Trial of miles.

                                2014 Goals:  sub-3 Marathon 

                                Current Status 08/28: Slowly working back up from a pelvic stress fracture.  4mil distance PR w00t!