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Finding my LT threshold. (Read 221 times)

Runslowalksalot


    after a couple of months with a HR monitor on garmin and more or less observing the results, I decided to train by HR today.   I was planning on doing 5-6 miles at 160 BPM, thinking that this was close to my LT.   after a 1.5 mile warmup, 7 miles in, I'm still going strong.   So I keep going.  9 miles puts me at the house, and i like to finish strong, so I did.   Finished mith a HR of 170-175 for the last mile.

     

    I only run 2, mabey 3 times a week tops, totalling 15-20 miles or so.      My question is this...   At 41 with a to date measure MHR of 191, I'm thinking that my LT HR was about 160, now i'm rethinking that.    9 miles should be considered a long run for my mileage, but I did it a a pretty high HR.   1:18, or 8:42 min/miles average,  though my last mile was 8:32.   Very good by my stanards.

    How long should I be able to hold my LT HR?   Also, what should my HR or % of max HR  be for a "long run"   My resting HR upon waking is 51, if that matters.

     

    Thanks...


    Feeling the growl again

      When my maxHR was roughly yours (or a couple beats higher, actually measured), 160 was the upper end of MP, certainly not LT.  And LT is classically defined as roughly one-hour race pace.

      "If you want to be a bad a$s, then do what a bad a$s does.  There's your pep talk for today.  Go Run." -- Slo_Hand

       

        First - I am far from an expert so take my advice lightly.

         

        Second, your LT HR is unique to you.  Hard to guess what it is based on Max HR, Resting HR, etc.

         

        My understanding is that your LT HR is the pace you can run for one hour.

         

        Lastly, I'm 44 and my max HR is 194 and I think my LT HR is somewhere right around 175.

        Age: 46 Weight: 200 Height: 6'2" (Goal weight 195)

        Current PR's:  Mara 3:48:09; HM 1:43:26; 10K 43:59; 5K 21:27

        Runslowalksalot


          Ok, so I had a good long run today.  I felt really good.   To find my LT, should kinds a HR that I can hold for and hour before cardiac drift sets in, or till my legs start to give out?

          Thomas's was  thinking that LT should be about 85% max hr.    which would be 165 given. Max HR of 195.   I'm told my method of getting 191 was probably inaccurate And that I'm probably higher.

             What is a probable range for LT?   85-90% max?


          And in the end...

            Generally 85%-88% of MaxHR.

            ------------------------

            The GITM is moot.

              A few weeks ago I went in to a sports coach and had them did a blood tested lactate threshold test.

              Every 3 minutes for 45 minutes, they took a blood sample to measure my lactate level, and the coach guided me through specific heart rates to work at throughout the 45 minutes.

               

              To find your actual LT, you may want to look at that option.

              To read about alternative ways to estimate your LT, feel free to read books that describe it or have people within the forums give their thoughts.

              2014 Goals:

              #1: Do what I can do. <DOING>

              #2: 365 Hours training <NOPE, INJURED>

               

              zonykel


                Your LT HR will change over time. It's not something you can estimate easily from HRmax.

                 

                Do a google search on how to estimate your LT HR. IIRC, it involves the following:

                1. Warm up

                2. Run at your best possible pace for 30 minutes by yourself. At the 10 minute mark, hit the lap button on your watch.

                3. The average HR for the last 20 minutes is an approximation of your LT HR.

                4. Cool down


                Right on Hereford...

                  after a couple of months with a HR monitor on garmin and more or less observing the results, I decided to train by HR today.   I was planning on doing 5-6 miles at 160 BPM, thinking that this was close to my LT.   after a 1.5 mile warmup, 7 miles in, I'm still going strong.   So I keep going.  9 miles puts me at the house, and i like to finish strong, so I did.   Finished mith a HR of 170-175 for the last mile.

                   

                  I only run 2, mabey 3 times a week tops, totalling 15-20 miles or so.      My question is this...   At 41 with a to date measure MHR of 191, I'm thinking that my LT HR was about 160, now i'm rethinking that.    9 miles should be considered a long run for my mileage, but I did it a a pretty high HR.   1:18, or 8:42 min/miles average,  though my last mile was 8:32.   Very good by my stanards.

                  How long should I be able to hold my LT HR?   Also, what should my HR or % of max HR  be for a "long run"   My resting HR upon waking is 51, if that matters.

                   

                  Thanks...

                   

                  Forget heart rate. Learn what LT feels like instead.

                   

                  At LT, you'll be a bit uncomfortable, but it should still feel like you can keep going for quite a while. When you are over LT, you'll feel the clock ticking, because you won't last very long at that pace.

                    after a couple of months with a HR monitor on garmin and more or less observing the results, I decided to train by HR today.   I was planning on doing 5-6 miles at 160 BPM, thinking that this was close to my LT.   after a 1.5 mile warmup, 7 miles in, I'm still going strong.   So I keep going.  9 miles puts me at the house, and i like to finish strong, so I did.   Finished mith a HR of 170-175 for the last mile.

                     

                    I only run 2, mabey 3 times a week tops, totalling 15-20 miles or so.      My question is this...   At 41 with a to date measure MHR of 191, I'm thinking that my LT HR was about 160, now i'm rethinking that.    9 miles should be considered a long run for my mileage, but I did it a a pretty high HR.   1:18, or 8:42 min/miles average,  though my last mile was 8:32.   Very good by my stanards.

                    How long should I be able to hold my LT HR?   Also, what should my HR or % of max HR  be for a "long run"   My resting HR upon waking is 51, if that matters.

                     

                    Thanks...

                    LT HR is a zone at upper end of "comfortably hard" and beyond - where it gets hard to breathe or talk. As pointed out, there are lab tests that can be done to estimate it for a particular day with your present fitness. For practical purposes, it is usually taken to be the HR you can sustain when racing for 1 hr in a race. Note: you can usually sustain higher efforts in a race than time trial. It will sometimes increase a bit as you get better trained, whereas HRmax is usually more stable.

                     

                    Usually, a workout of 20-40min near LT HR zone is about as much as you'd want to do. If you go 60min, then you're racing. If you go longer, you're probably not near LT HR.

                     

                    HR for your long run will vary by duration and intention. Some keep them very easy, some a little harder, some use fast finishes. I usually keep mine in the 75% HRmax (62% HRR, 84% LT HR) range give or take a few, but can vary between 70% (or less) on a long downhill and 80+% on extended uphills with a pack. I don't worry about it. I just run what feels like a reasonable effort for the goals of that run - and it is what it is. That said, I've used HRM long enough that I can usually tell you my HR within a few bpm without looking, esp. when getting near what I consider my LT HR.

                     

                    Suggestion: If you really want to train by HR, then get a book and read up on it and its idiosyncrasies. Since you seem to be interested in LT HR, you might look at Joe Friel's Total Heart Rate Training, but there's other books. HR training has tons of confusing or misinformation on websites and forums.

                     

                    The question I've got is "why" did you suddenly decide to train by HR now after a couple months with a HRM?

                     

                    If you're running a couple times a week, total 15-20mi, you might be better just using "talk test" to guide your efforts and using HRM to log your data, if you want. HRMs are cool tools if you take the time to learn to use them, but otherwise they can be very frustrating and you may not make the best use of your training time.

                    "So many people get stuck in the routine of life that their dreams waste away. This is about living the dream." - Cave Dog
                    Runslowalksalot


                      All of my previous training has been by feel, with decent results.    After getting a HRM I thought it a good Idea to simply observe my HR at different percieved effort levels before actually going by it.    It worked out well for my 1st run, I think.    My 9 miler a week an a half ago, I started out at 150-155bpm and tried to keep a steady pace/percieved effort.  my HR steadily increased to 180 by the end of the run.   Yesterday on the same course after reaching 160 BPM, I tried to keep it there, either slowing down or speeding up with wind/ modest hills.    My HR stayed more or less steady till the last couple miles or so when I was still feeling really good and picked up the pace a bit to finish at 175 BPM and a full 3 minutes faster than my run on this course last week.

                      I don't inted to be ruled by it, but the HRM has it's place like any other training tool.

                        I thought this was about me.  Carry on.

                         

                          For training purposes you'd be better off estimating your LT from race paces, then observing your HR at that pace. There's really no training value in getting any more scientific than that.

                          Runners run.

                            IMHO, HRM has great value for Maffetone-style training (long/slow), some value for gauging recovery during interval training, and very little value for LT threshold aka tempo.  LT training is all about muscular adaptions: mitochondria, enzymes; not improving heart pumping efficiency.  Heart rate will drift during exercise and is dependent upon ambient temperature and humidity.  The heart has to work harder if cooling efficiency is low.  Especially in Spring/Fall, temperature variations from one week to the next will blur the correlation between perceived effort and heart rate.

                             

                            To put it very simply, it should be comfortably hard, at a level slightly below 10K race effort.  At the end, you should feel like you could do another 10-20 minutes, but slowing down is a significant relief.  If your legs turn to lead and your are gasping for breath at the end, it was too fast.  If you went for 9 miles, it was too slow.  Push yourself progressively harder.  Even if you eventually go out too hard, it is good to know what that pace is, so that you may be able to recognize having gone out too fast during a half/full marathon.

                            2013 H1:  7 hours/week base.  Q3: Train for goal race.  Q4:  Goal Race.


                            Right on Hereford...

                              If you went for 9 miles, it was too slow.

                               

                              Unless you did your 9 miles in an hour and it was at race effort. Wink

                                FIFY

                                 

                                Unless you did your 9 miles in an hour and it was at race effort. ...

                                "...before cardiac drift sets in, or till my legs start to give out?"

                                Wink

                                2014 Goals:

                                #1: Do what I can do. <DOING>

                                #2: 365 Hours training <NOPE, INJURED>

                                 

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