Goal of Sub-3 Hour Marathon (Read 15821 times)

    Woohoo, I ran a 1:23 PR HM today on a hilly course.. Sub 3 is looking more and more realistic Smile

     

    Great result. I assumed you meant 1:23.something, which is a great time no matter how many seconds are there, but I looked in your log in case there were more details (I love reading peoples race reports even in abbreviated log form) - that was a 1:23:00 !! That's some going. Congratulations on the race and the placement.

    John

    Goal: Age grade over 80% on a certified course.
      A bit of spam, but maybe someone is interested.  Here's a 100 Day Marathon Plan that was developed by a former Olympian.  I interviewed him about it on my site.  Perhaps it can help someone with their goals.
      DLJ


        ChakaKahn - great result and a fantastic run. I am sure that the sub-3 hour is right there for teh picking now. Once again congratulations on the half marathon result.

         

        Dwane

          Nice half Chaka - 1:23 is shifting, Great run!

           

          & a nice 5k too Dwane, good running, you're getting faster by the day!

            Woohoo, I ran a 1:23 PR HM today on a hilly course.. Sub 3 is looking more and more realistic Smile

             

             

            Super run, Chaka. Knowing all the problems you've had to deal with this year makes it doubly impressive. If you can ever string together a few solid training months you are going to be very dangerous.

            Age 60 plus best times: 5k 19:00, 10k 38:35, 10m 1:05:30, HM 1:24:09, 30k 2:04:33

              Five weeks post marathon I was hoping this weekend's half marathon would be a good tune up before my second marathon attempt, now 4 weeks away.

              Unfortunately it wasn't to be. Although the early miles were on pace for a 1:24 to 1:25 finish - which should have been a realistic target - it was clear even early on that I was working too hard and this wasn't a sustainable pace . After only mile 6 my pace started to drop off a little and by the end I was struggling to finish under 1:30 (final time was 1:29:38). My legs felt tired early on and by the end I felt someone had doubled the gravity. Although I was naturally disappointed with my result I wasn't disappointed with myself since it took large amounts of HTFU to get through the last few miles.

               

              Photographs before and after gravity doubling. Both from the second half of the course, the right hand one is getting close to the finish, thankfully.

              Searching around the internets I'm finding lots of advice on how long it takes after a marathon before you should start back into hard training but not much information on how long after a marathon you can expect it not to impact your race performance. I've been following Pfitzinger's 9 weeks between Marathon's plan and, until this weekend I think I'd pretty much followed it to the letter. At 45 I suppose I should be glad I've got through a cycle of marathon training and recovery without injury and not get too greedy but now I'm somewhat concerned what this might mean for my next marathon - only 4 weeks away. I'm guessing this is just one of those things were there is a lot of individual variation. I feel I've always recovered from shorter races quite quickly but I guess the marathon is a different kettle of fish.

               

              John

              Goal: Age grade over 80% on a certified course.


              I'm back!

                Five weeks post marathon I was hoping this weekend's half marathon would be a good tune up before At 45 I suppose I should be glad I've got through a cycle of marathon training and recovery without injury and not get too greedy but now I'm somewhat concerned what this might mean for my next marathon - only 4 weeks away. I'm guessing this is just one of those things were there is a lot of individual variation. I feel I've always recovered from shorter races quite quickly but I guess the marathon is a different kettle of fish.

                  

                There is some individual variation, but most importantly, over time marathon recovery gets much easier, especially as you gradually move them closer together. When I first ran two two weeks apart a couple of years ago, the second was very hard. This year, at 43, I ran my first sub-3 at Boston, which kicked off 13 marathons in 12 weeks. No more sub-3s in there, but the last two were run in identical 3:08:34s.

                 

                That said, you'll never get peak performance in two marathons 9 weeks apart.

                  John - I think 9 weeks is enough time to recover and run a good race.   You got a fitness boost from Cowtown and you'll get a boost from this 1/2 you just ran. Just keep to your training plan and you'll be in better shape than when you ran Cowtown.   Keep pluggin' and don't question your ability to do it! 

                  BTW, are you still running Santa Barbara or did you change to CIM? 

                    John - I think 9 weeks is enough time to recover and run a good race.   You got a fitness boost from Cowtown and you'll get a boost from this 1/2 you just ran. Just keep to your training plan and you'll be in better shape than when you ran Cowtown.   Keep pluggin' and don't question your ability to do it! 

                    BTW, are you still running Santa Barbara or did you change to CIM? 

                     

                    I got something from Cowtown but it sure doesn't feel like a fitness boost right now.....

                     

                    I'm still down for the inaugural Santa Barbara marathon. It should be a good event with about 5,000 runners, if they fill up, in the full and a relay marathon but no half marathon. Hard to resist a race that starts under a mile and a half from your front door. Using your own bathroom on race morning? Priceless.....

                     

                    John

                    Goal: Age grade over 80% on a certified course.

                       

                      Pace - 5 seconds of pace = 2 minutes 11 seconds over a marathon.

                       

                      I actually believe its between 1-2 seconds per mile per pound.  If you plug it into a V02max chart it would be 2 seconds per pound, but that would assume a person is a very effeceint runner.  It also depends on you total weight - A 110# women losing 5 pounds (assuming not too much loss) would gain more than a 200# person losing 5#

                       

                       

                       

                       Thanks Mike - I really must learn to read the question properly!  Apologies.

                        John, it sound's to me like you may be running on empty a bit.

                         

                        Ken & bhearn know an awful lot more than me about this marathoning lark, and this probably will kick you forward towards the marathon as they say, but I'd be careful not to dig too deep in your training in the next few weeks if you are still struggling with your energy levels.  You want to have the 'stick a fork in me, I'm done' feeling after the marathon not before!

                         

                        Cheers, Robin

                          Oh and those were nice performances in the Clarkesburg 30k on Sunday Ken & Jim.  It sounds like it was a bit windy from your log entries too.  Strong runs.

                            John,

                             

                            Not only is there no one answer that fits all runners, but things can even vary a lot with the individual runner. There have been times when I've fallen behind the recovery curve and it has taken months to get back in the groove. Then there are other times when I've bounced back quickly from one hard race after another. It has been a series of peaks and valleys since I started 30 years ago. I've seen the same thing with many other runners. They tend to run hot and cold. One of the biggest culprits, I think, is trying to stay in top racing shape year around. When we are racing well we don't want it to end and so we just keep running race after race. If we don't back off for a while and let the batteries recharge we either get injured or reach a plateau where we can't improve. Sometimes we even regress.

                             

                            Speaking of the devil, this year has been one of those valleys for me. After improving every year from 59 through age 62 the momentum has headed in the opposite direction this year. Of course the trend of slowing times with advancing years has to rear its ugly head at some point, but the drop off I've seen this year has been much steeper than normal expectation. Instead of having my 10k time slow by the expected 20-25 seconds it has been almost 90 seconds. Instead of slowing by 45-50 seconds in the half marathon it has been more than 4 minutes! The 30k I ran on Sunday was 3 1/2 minutes slower than the one I ran last year on the same course. The same age graded time would have been only about 75 seconds slower. 

                            This slump all started last year following this same 30k, my 31st race of the year. Not only was I racing a lot, but I was stepping up the distance with a 10 miler, 3 half marathons, and a 30k spread over an 8 week period. Finally the s**t hit the fan and series of nagging injuries hit. I've been trying to find my stride ever since.

                            If my last few races are any indication, however, I might have finally started to turn the corner. While Sunday's race was way off last year's it was still my best of the year. Each of my last few races has been an improvement over the one before. My goal now is to run a few age graded times at 64 that are equal to what I ran at 62--an ambitious one but not impossible if I can stay healthy.

                            This brings me to the marathon. I've concluded that a sub-3 is no longer a realistic goal and for at least the time being it is off the table. About the only thing I haven't tried is an "Ed Whitlock" where I'd try to run at least a poor man's version of his mega miles approach. To date the most I've ever run was the 2961 I ran last year, an average of 57 mpw. Would I see meaningful improvement if I could and would run 4000 miles in a year? I'm not sure I even want to try but it's a thread of hope to cling if I decide to give it a go.

                             

                            Anyway, enough rambling for now...hope I didn't put anyone to sleep.

                             

                            Age 60 plus best times: 5k 19:00, 10k 38:35, 10m 1:05:30, HM 1:24:09, 30k 2:04:33
                            DoppleBock


                              Jim,

                               

                              here is to coming out of the valley and heading for another peak!

                               

                              You will know when the time is right to put that one back on the table.

                              http://a-big-horse.blogspot.com/ 

                              2013 Goals ~ Mar < 3:00, 5M < 29, 10k < 35  

                               

                                Jim,

                                 

                                here is to coming out of the valley and heading for another peak!

                                 

                                You will know when the time is right to put that one back on the table.

                                 

                                Thanks DB. If I didn't have a job and a woman it would be back on the table today...not necessarily the sub-3 but an attempt at a 4000-mile year and take it from there.

                                Age 60 plus best times: 5k 19:00, 10k 38:35, 10m 1:05:30, HM 1:24:09, 30k 2:04:33