Hanson's Marathon Project (Read 2116 times)


Was it all a dream?

    20% of my projected 60 mpw that I'm planning on would only be a 12 miler!

     

    Also that was the first I heard that the long runs should be MP + 5%.  For me that's 30 to 45 seconds per mile faster than I was planning on running them.

     

    Lots more to this plan that the little chart in the runnersworld article.  I may have to break down and buy the book.

     

    Ha! Very true.  Poor math skills today apparently Smile

    I'm in the business of misery...


    I'm back!

      I just ordered the book. But I am still bothered by the lack of long runs. There is more to running a marathon than physiology -- for me, being comfortable with the distance makes a huge difference. And then there is the whole wanting to "race" frequently and see all my friends thing.

       

      But purely in terms of physiology, one of the primary adaptations the long run is supposed to stimulate is teaching your muscles to store more glycogen. Is this instead accomplished by going into those 16-milers glycogen deprived? Also, isn't there some evidence that over time, accumulated long runs help make fast-twitch muscle behave more like slow-twitch muscle?

      Venomized


      Drink up moho's!!

        1 of the things I found interesting is the easy paces they say teach the body to burn fat for fuel.  They say that at the prescribed paces of 1 - 2 minutes slower than MP you will burn 70% energy from fat and 30% energy from stored glycogen.  Faster and you will increase the glycogen consumption.  This pace window is meant to teach us to burn fat for energy in order to save and extend the glycogen depletion.

         

        Another thing they talk about is how the body stores glycogen in the muscles and how the muscles can't "borrow" from other muscles once they are depleted.  The leg muscles will store so much but once that is used they cannot borrow from the biceps.


        I'm back!

          Well -- this is an area of some debate; I believe current thinking is in favor of the "lactate shuttle" hypothesis, which does let you effectively borrow glycogen from other sources to some extent. 


          Feeling the growl again

            1 of the things I found interesting is the easy paces they say teach the body to burn fat for fuel.  They say that at the prescribed paces of 1 - 2 minutes slower than MP you will burn 70% energy from fat and 30% energy from stored glycogen.  Faster and you will increase the glycogen consumption.  This pace window is meant to teach us to burn fat for energy in order to save and extend the glycogen depletion.

             

            Another thing they talk about is how the body stores glycogen in the muscles and how the muscles can't "borrow" from other muscles once they are depleted.  The leg muscles will store so much but once that is used they cannot borrow from the biceps.

             

            Well, a only a little bit of glycogen is stored in the muscle...a couple percent by weight.  Your liver will store close to 10% by weight.  While it is true that muscle glycogen is not shared, all that glycogen in your liver is.

             

            It is worthy to try and up your fat burning % a little....think crashing at mile 24 instead of 21-22 if you go out too fast.  But that's hardly the primary purpose of long aerobic runs.

             

            FWIW I did my best marathon effort (second best marathon) with no decent long run over 16 miles.  I did do a couple 20-milers, but it was brutally hot and I walked parts of both to avoid heat stroke in the last 3-4 miles.

            "If you want to be a bad a$s, then do what a bad a$s does.  There's your pep talk for today.  Go Run." -- Slo_Hand

             

            meaghansketch


              I am not planning on doing the plan at this time for a variety of reasons, but I bought the book and I have to say that it is an extremely worthwhile read, whether you think it's a good plan for you or not.  I have read probably nearly a dozen running books (Daniels, Pfitzinger, Hudson, many others) but there was some physiology information presented in the Hanson book which I felt was presented in a clearer way (or maybe just that connected with me more) than other books I'd read.  I would definitely recommend it to any marathon runner, whether you think you'll want to follow their plan specifically or not. 

              Up next: Front Runners New York LGBT Pride 5-mile  06/28 |  NYRR Team Championships: Women (5M) 08/02

              Goal race: NYCRUNS Haunted Island 10K 10/25


              Bad Ass

                Interesting discussion.  I have the book but I have not finished reading it.

                 

                I don't worry much about the lack of LRs because I've done marathons out of 16 milers (with a sporadic 18 miler) before.  My worry is whether I can improve as much or better as a regular plan with 20-22 milers.

                Damaris, Marathon Maniac, Ultra Runner

                Blog

                "The most powerful weapon on earth is the human soul on fire."

                onemile


                  Interesting discussion.  I have the book but I have not finished reading it.

                   

                  I don't worry much about the lack of LRs because I've done marathons out of 16 milers (with a sporadic 18 miler) before.  My worry is whether I can improve as much or better as a regular plan with 20-22 milers.

                   

                  I suspect that you have a good amount of endurance and would benefit from more/harder speedwork.  I don't think running a lot of 20-22 milers is the answer.

                  jedigunnie26.2


                  BQ in 2013

                    Asked for book for Christmas. Really intrigued by these training philosophies. Really considering doing it for my fall marathon.

                    PR's - 5K - 20:15 (2013) | 10K - 45:14 (2011)  | 13.1 - 1:34:40 (2013)  | 26.2 - 3:47:47 (2012)

                     

                    2013 Goals - 3000 miles (940m May'13) | sub20 5k | sub 43 10K  | sub1:35 13.1 | sub 3:15 26.2

                     

                    2013

                    Saginaw 5k - 1/19/13 - 20:15 PR

                    Chambersburg Half Marathon - 3/9/13 - 1:36:22 PR

                    Frederick Half Marathon - 5/5/13 - 1:34:40 PR

                     

                    Up Next:

                    Shippensburg Fair 5k - 7/27/13

                    RnR Philadelphia Half Marathon - 9/15/13

                    Philadelphia Marathon - 11/17/13


                    Bad Ass

                      I suspect that you have a good amount of endurance and would benefit from more/harder speedwork.  I don't think running a lot of 20-22 milers is the answer.

                       

                      At this point, I agree and disagree.  With the asthma, the more endurance I have the faster I can run without having an asthma attack.  I need additional endurance to be able to run at the pace I should be running without asthma.  I still cannot do certain speedwork because it sends my lungs into a spiral.  But by the time I consider Hanson (2013-2014) things might be different.

                      Damaris, Marathon Maniac, Ultra Runner

                      Blog

                      "The most powerful weapon on earth is the human soul on fire."

                      jedigunnie26.2


                      BQ in 2013

                        I added the plan to my RA.  If anyone else wants to save time entering it, here's the link:

                         

                        http://www.runningahead.com/logs/db670d77527a4bcfb0f003c1a980d6da/plans/d51e8ffbcdee4abeadc56eca32ad9b04

                         

                        (hope this works).

                         

                        Thanks for posting this. I copied and put in my log. Can't wait to read this book.

                        PR's - 5K - 20:15 (2013) | 10K - 45:14 (2011)  | 13.1 - 1:34:40 (2013)  | 26.2 - 3:47:47 (2012)

                         

                        2013 Goals - 3000 miles (940m May'13) | sub20 5k | sub 43 10K  | sub1:35 13.1 | sub 3:15 26.2

                         

                        2013

                        Saginaw 5k - 1/19/13 - 20:15 PR

                        Chambersburg Half Marathon - 3/9/13 - 1:36:22 PR

                        Frederick Half Marathon - 5/5/13 - 1:34:40 PR

                         

                        Up Next:

                        Shippensburg Fair 5k - 7/27/13

                        RnR Philadelphia Half Marathon - 9/15/13

                        Philadelphia Marathon - 11/17/13

                          I added the plan to my RA.  If anyone else wants to save time entering it, here's the link:

                           

                          http://www.runningahead.com/logs/db670d77527a4bcfb0f003c1a980d6da/plans/d51e8ffbcdee4abeadc56eca32ad9b04

                           

                          (hope this works).

                           

                          Worked for me, thanks a bunch

                           

                          The pain that hurts the worse is the imagined pain. One of the most difficult arts of racing is learning to ignore the imagined pain and just live with the present pain (which is always bearable.) - Jeff

                           

                          2014 Goals:

                           

                          Stay healthy

                          Enjoy life

                           

                          jedigunnie26.2


                          BQ in 2013

                            Not having read the book yet what is philosophy behind tune-up races? usually for a marathon cycle i like to run a Hm to see where my fitness is at anywhere from 6-8 weeks out from full. Not doing true tempos by GMP tempos makes me think you are not getting enough in. Like i said I have not read book yet so I am missing something here.

                            PR's - 5K - 20:15 (2013) | 10K - 45:14 (2011)  | 13.1 - 1:34:40 (2013)  | 26.2 - 3:47:47 (2012)

                             

                            2013 Goals - 3000 miles (940m May'13) | sub20 5k | sub 43 10K  | sub1:35 13.1 | sub 3:15 26.2

                             

                            2013

                            Saginaw 5k - 1/19/13 - 20:15 PR

                            Chambersburg Half Marathon - 3/9/13 - 1:36:22 PR

                            Frederick Half Marathon - 5/5/13 - 1:34:40 PR

                             

                            Up Next:

                            Shippensburg Fair 5k - 7/27/13

                            RnR Philadelphia Half Marathon - 9/15/13

                            Philadelphia Marathon - 11/17/13

                            onemile


                              Not having read the book yet what is philosophy behind tune-up races? usually for a marathon cycle i like to run a Hm to see where my fitness is at anywhere from 6-8 weeks out from full. Not doing true tempos by GMP tempos makes me think you are not getting enough in. Like i said I have not read book yet so I am missing something here.

                               

                              I plan on doing a tune up race (or a couple).  He does address this. I can't remember exactly what he said but it was along the lines of how to adjust the schedule to accomodate these races.  I can check the book tonight.

                               

                              In addition to the GMP tempos there are also "strength" intervals which are done at GMP minus 10 seconds per mile.  Which according to Hansons is pretty close to HMP (or LT pace).  You're thinking there's not enough true tempo as in 10k-15k paced work?

                              jedigunnie26.2


                              BQ in 2013

                                I plan on doing a tune up race (or a couple).  He does address this. I can't remember exactly what he said but it was along the lines of how to adjust the schedule to accomodate these races.  I can check the book tonight.

                                 

                                In addition to the GMP tempos there are also "strength" intervals which are done at GMP minus 10 seconds per mile.  Which according to Hansons is pretty close to HMP (or LT pace).  You're thinking there's not enough true tempo as in 10k-15k paced work?

                                 

                                I think that covers that then. Thanks! Really need to read book.

                                PR's - 5K - 20:15 (2013) | 10K - 45:14 (2011)  | 13.1 - 1:34:40 (2013)  | 26.2 - 3:47:47 (2012)

                                 

                                2013 Goals - 3000 miles (940m May'13) | sub20 5k | sub 43 10K  | sub1:35 13.1 | sub 3:15 26.2

                                 

                                2013

                                Saginaw 5k - 1/19/13 - 20:15 PR

                                Chambersburg Half Marathon - 3/9/13 - 1:36:22 PR

                                Frederick Half Marathon - 5/5/13 - 1:34:40 PR

                                 

                                Up Next:

                                Shippensburg Fair 5k - 7/27/13

                                RnR Philadelphia Half Marathon - 9/15/13

                                Philadelphia Marathon - 11/17/13