2013 Sub-3:30 Marathon Goal Thread (Read 1381 times)

jedigunnie26.2


BQ in 2013

    For those familiar with RnR USA...  I have my first marathon pace run this weekend and am feeling the need to set a goal marathon pace.  Would you say the course is easy or hard?  I'm trying to figure out how aggressive I should be.  On the con side, there's the pull up Rock Creek and the rolling hills of Minnesota Ave at the end.  On the pro side, there's that long downhill on N. Capitol St and a lot of flat after the half splits off.  What do you think?

     

    Julia - I found RnR USA a challenging course as it's not exactly flat by any means, but not hills not too bad. The course for 2013 looks to have changed that some though. What is your time from your last race? Maybe set it as 3:30 pace for now and go from there. Oh, the MRT 330 thread is like this one, but we talk more about our training on a daily basis.

    PR's - 5K - 20:15 (2013) | 10K - 45:14 (2011)  | 13.1 - 1:34:40 (2013)  | 26.2 - 3:47:47 (2012)

     

    2013 Goals - 3000 miles (940m May'13) | sub20 5k | sub 43 10K  | sub1:35 13.1 | sub 3:15 26.2

     

    2013

    Saginaw 5k - 1/19/13 - 20:15 PR

    Chambersburg Half Marathon - 3/9/13 - 1:36:22 PR

    Frederick Half Marathon - 5/5/13 - 1:34:40 PR

     

    Up Next:

    Shippensburg Fair 5k - 7/27/13

    RnR Philadelphia Half Marathon - 9/15/13

    Philadelphia Marathon - 11/17/13

    Julia1971


      Julia - I found RnR USA a challenging course as it's not exactly flat by any means, but not hills not too bad. Tha2013 looks to have changed that some though. What is your time from your last race? Maybe set it as 3:30 pace for now and go from there. Oh, the MRT 330 thread is liek this one, but we talk more about our training on a daily basis.

       

      Sorry, I should have included those details...  My last marathon under good conditions was National in 2011 where I ran 3:26.  But, I think I'm a bit faster now than I was then since I've gone through two more marathon cycles since then - Boston and NYCM.  I was training for sub-3:20 for NYCM and was thinking sub-3:15 for RnR USA but am wondering if that might be too aggressive considering the course.

      You're too strong not to keep on keepin' on. - The Pips
      Yes, I am! - Gladys Knight

      jedigunnie26.2


      BQ in 2013

        Sorry, I should have included those details...  My last marathon under good conditions was National in 2011 where I ran 3:26.  But, I think I'm a bit faster now than I was then since I've gone through two more marathon cycles since then - Boston and NYCM.  I was training for sub-3:20 for NYCM and was thinking sub-3:15 for RnR USA but am wondering if that might be too aggressive considering the course.

         

        Are you do any tune-ups in the cycle? Maybe train for sub3:20 and do a Hm close to RnR and revise to 3;15 if race projects that.

        PR's - 5K - 20:15 (2013) | 10K - 45:14 (2011)  | 13.1 - 1:34:40 (2013)  | 26.2 - 3:47:47 (2012)

         

        2013 Goals - 3000 miles (940m May'13) | sub20 5k | sub 43 10K  | sub1:35 13.1 | sub 3:15 26.2

         

        2013

        Saginaw 5k - 1/19/13 - 20:15 PR

        Chambersburg Half Marathon - 3/9/13 - 1:36:22 PR

        Frederick Half Marathon - 5/5/13 - 1:34:40 PR

         

        Up Next:

        Shippensburg Fair 5k - 7/27/13

        RnR Philadelphia Half Marathon - 9/15/13

        Philadelphia Marathon - 11/17/13


        old woman w/hobby

          Julia-  

           

          I'm no expert, having run only three marathons, all of them in the past year.  

           

          The first two courses were similar.  RnR USA was my second.  I didn't feel that the course was hard in

          any way.  The up grade from mile 4 to 7 last year was no problem.  But I don't know how that 

          compares to this year's course change along Rocky Creek.  

           

          As far as Minnesota Ave, it didn't make any impression on me.  I don't remember it as hilly.  But then

          by that time all I could think of was my aching feet and the need for water.   The water at the aid stations

          on the back side tasted like water from a bad garden hose so I didn't drink as much as I needed.  

           

          I forgot to mention the bad tasting water last year when you asked me about the back half of the course. 

           

          I think that you should have no fear being as aggressive as you can want to be.  If the weather 

          co-operates you should do well.  

          steph  

           

          OCD  If you don't laugh...   


          old woman w/hobby

            Julia-

             

            I need to add that nearly all of my training runs are done on small rolling hills.

            I did skip the largest hill when doing marathon pace runs.  I won't make that mistake next year.

            MTA:  When training for Monkey.

             

            I think of DC as very flat.

             

            If you can find a place with some small rolling hills and do many of your training runs there

            I doubt that you will even notice the up grades in DC.  

            steph  

             

            OCD  If you don't laugh...   

            Julia1971


              TeaOlive, thanks for offering up your impression.  Even though I've done the course before, I'm having trouble remembering how hard the course felt...  And, most of my runs are flat but I live on a hill so I always finish a climb.  But, maybe I need to start integrating more hills in my courses.

               

              Jedigunnie26.2, I had a couple of tune-up races in the last cycle.  Based on those times, McMillan puts me at 3:12-3:15ish for a marathon...  But, yeah, maybe I should assess after I do my MP run on Saturday.  I don't have to commit now.

              You're too strong not to keep on keepin' on. - The Pips
              Yes, I am! - Gladys Knight

              Flinders


              Three Martini Lunch

                Julia,

                 

                I've run the half twice but not the full, so I don't know what the hills through far Southeast are like at that stage.  The change to Rock Creek from Connecticut Ave/Columbia Road make the hill steeper but shorter.  Going through Rock Creek is relatively flat; taking the road up from Rock Creek Parkway at Connecticut Ave/Calvert Street is about 120 feet gained over four-tenths of a mile, so it is steep, but short.  Then it is flat until it joins up with the old course at Columbia Road (at the top of the hill on the old course).  I run this hill on training runs, and it is tough but not overwhelming.

                 

                My thoughts with this hill are that you can budget some time to take it pretty easy up it so as not to drain yourself on it and be up it without losing much time.

                M: 3:31:56

                HM: 1:37:33

                Julia1971


                  Thanks, Flinders.  I'm thinking maybe I should run that segment this weekend so I can get a sense for it...  I do seem to vaguely recall a lot of people struggling on Minnesota Ave.  I think it's like 4 or 5 mini-hills spaced about 1/4 or 1/2 mile apart.  Granted, it's after Mile 20 and they could just be bonking, but at that point in the race you don't really want rollers. 

                  You're too strong not to keep on keepin' on. - The Pips
                  Yes, I am! - Gladys Knight

                  yweuishdf


                    No reason provided
                    Julia1971


                      FYI, I ran my first goal marathon pace run this weekend and managed 7:38 pace, which is sub-3:20.  It's only one data point and I still have 3 months of training to go, but it's making me feel I should be a bit more conservative about my goal.  But again, 3 more months to go.  

                       

                      This is my last week in the endurance phase.  My mileage has been steady climbing.  I hit 76 last week and am hoping to hit the low 70s this week.  Next week, I start doing tempo runs.  I didn't do them in the endurance phase.  I felt like I needed the steady runs more since I'd taken off so many days after my NYCM training.  I'm planning to tweak the Pfitz lactate threshold workouts and make them something closer Daniels tempo runs.  I've found it hard to hit 15K-Half pace in my training.  I'm wondering if it might be better for me to lay off the speed a little but go longer.  Or, do something closer to cruise intervals.  We'll see...  Experiment of One.

                      You're too strong not to keep on keepin' on. - The Pips
                      Yes, I am! - Gladys Knight

                        Julia - What exactly is making you think you should be more conservative?

                        Your HM time suggests considerably better than your (understandably) slower marathon time suggests. How recent is it? And will you have a tune-up race to judge your ideal pace?  

                         

                        I'm not saying you shouldn't dial it back, but I'm just wondering what exactly has spooked you? From the evidence, I don't see what's unreasonable about a 3:20.

                        jedigunnie26.2


                        BQ in 2013

                          FYI, I ran my first goal marathon pace run this weekend and managed 7:38 pace, which is sub-3:20.  It's only one data point and I still have 3 months of training to go, but it's making me feel I should be a bit more conservative about my goal.  But again, 3 more months to go.  

                           

                          This is my last week in the endurance phase.  My mileage has been steady climbing.  I hit 76 last week and am hoping to hit the low 70s this week.  Next week, I start doing tempo runs.  I didn't do them in the endurance phase.  I felt like I needed the steady runs more since I'd taken off so many days after my NYCM training.  I'm planning to tweak the Pfitz lactate threshold workouts and make them something closer Daniels tempo runs.  I've found it hard to hit 15K-Half pace in my training.  I'm wondering if it might be better for me to lay off the speed a little but go longer.  Or, do something closer to cruise intervals.  We'll see...  Experiment of One.

                           

                          Julia - solid training run. I'm following Daniels 5k-15k plan right now. In middle of Phase i as we speak to train fro 2 HM's this spring. Daniels has  achart in book about LT runs and how to slowdown the tempo runs based on the duration. I'm a VDOT 47 currently and he has my T pace at 7:10. According to chart I won't run a 40min tempo at 7:10 but +15 seconds 7:25.

                          PR's - 5K - 20:15 (2013) | 10K - 45:14 (2011)  | 13.1 - 1:34:40 (2013)  | 26.2 - 3:47:47 (2012)

                           

                          2013 Goals - 3000 miles (940m May'13) | sub20 5k | sub 43 10K  | sub1:35 13.1 | sub 3:15 26.2

                           

                          2013

                          Saginaw 5k - 1/19/13 - 20:15 PR

                          Chambersburg Half Marathon - 3/9/13 - 1:36:22 PR

                          Frederick Half Marathon - 5/5/13 - 1:34:40 PR

                           

                          Up Next:

                          Shippensburg Fair 5k - 7/27/13

                          RnR Philadelphia Half Marathon - 9/15/13

                          Philadelphia Marathon - 11/17/13

                            FYI, I ran my first goal marathon pace run this weekend and managed 7:38 pace, which is sub-3:20.

                             

                            Sounds good; how long was the run?

                            Julia1971


                              Julia - What exactly is making you think you should be more conservative?

                              Your HM time suggests considerably better than your (understandably) slower marathon time suggests. How recent is it? And will you have a tune-up race to judge your ideal pace?  

                               

                              I'm not saying you shouldn't dial it back, but I'm just wondering what exactly has spooked you? From the evidence, I don't see what's unreasonable about a 3:20.

                               

                              I think I'm good with sub-3:20 but spooked about sub-3:15, which is where those two times put me close to according to McMillan.  7:38 pace felt hard and I'm having trouble thinking about racing faster than that...  They were both pretty recent (October) and on pretty neutral courses - not too hilly, not too downhill.  I have two tune-up races planned.  One is a 10 miler but on a tough course so it probably won't be a good indicator.  But, I'll have a 10K on a fair course that should be good to use. 

                              You're too strong not to keep on keepin' on. - The Pips
                              Yes, I am! - Gladys Knight

                              Julia1971


                                Sounds good; how long was the run?

                                 

                                17 w/10 miles at goal marathon pace.  I tried to run by feel rather than having a set pace in mind but it still felt hard.  They get easier, right?

                                You're too strong not to keep on keepin' on. - The Pips
                                Yes, I am! - Gladys Knight