RunningAHEAD - Topic: hows my pace? (page 2)

dgb2n

Dave

posted: 1/18/2008 at 1:01 PM

I'll give it a shot since no one anwered. Back to McMillan pace calculator. If your fastest mile time is 5:55, McMillan recommends mile interval runs right around what you did (6:36-6:48). Adjusting it down so that your average interval is right in the middle, it comes out to a 5K time of 19:55 and a 10K time of 41:23. Obviously I have low confidence in this but I really like playing with the McMillan calculator Tongue

I ran a mile and I liked it, liked it, liked it.

dgb2n@yahoo.com

Eddy

Slow-smooth-fast

posted: 1/18/2008 at 5:24 PM

No this is not right as this was the speed of my last interval after already completing 4 miles. I mean to say, that i you compute 40 miniutes for a 10K in the mcmillan calc, it gives you cruise intervals for a mile of 6:23 to 6:31, so I was slightly faster than these times overall. Is that not what I should be looking at? This is the difficulty with the calc I find, I dont know which heading to look under. I think as this was a total of 5 miles, it is more of a stamina workout - trying to hold pace for a long time. Is this not right? I think I would use the speed times if I was doing something like: 1 x 1mile 2 x 800m 4 x 400m 8 x 200m Then I would certainly be able to run all these sub 6.

"I've been following Eddy's improvement over the last two years on this site, and it's been pretty dang solid. Sure the weekly mileage has been up and down, but over the long haul he's getting out the door and has turned himself into quite a runner. He's only now just figuring out his potential. Consistency in running is measured in years, not weeks. And over the last couple of years, Eddy's made great strides" Jeff 14 Jan 2009

dgb2n

Dave

posted: 1/18/2008 at 8:01 PM

The way to read the calculator is that the top predicts your time in specific races and the bottom recommends training paces for different types of training runs. For me, my last 10 miler was a good race for me in about 1:20. From that at the top it predicts a 2 mile time of 14:09 (pretty close to a recent effort), a HM of 1:46 (I'm going to shoot for this in my next one) and a marathon of 3:44 (I wish). For training paces, the bottom tells me I should run easy runs at 9:04-9:34 (right on), tempo runs at 7:47-8:07 (right on), and one mile intervals at 7:21-7:37 (also right on). I could probably do my tempo runs a bit faster but I should probably save it for a race. It is interesting that the tempo run pace almost exactly corresponds to what I think my lactate threshold is (pace where my average HR is 80-85% max). I was not using the calculator as intended in my previous post. Just toying with it to try and back into some predicted race times based on training runs. I do not see 5 1 mile repeats as having the same benefit as a 5 mile tempo effort though. You should be doing the repeats at a faster pace than you can sustain for 5 miles continuous effort.

I ran a mile and I liked it, liked it, liked it.

dgb2n@yahoo.com

runner92

Just Be

posted: 1/19/2008 at 12:50 AM

Wow, Eddy, Just saw this thread, you're doing very well! Smile

Hopefully your times will keep dropping steadily. Keep us updated!

My Running Log | Blog of Running Lore

Eddy

Slow-smooth-fast

posted: 1/19/2008 at 5:41 AM

Quote from dgb2n on 1/18/2008 at 8:01 PM:

The way to read the calculator is that the top predicts your time in specific races and the bottom recommends training paces for different types of training runs. For me, my last 10 miler was a good race for me in about 1:20. From that at the top it predicts a 2 mile time of 14:09 (pretty close to a recent effort), a HM of 1:46 (I'm going to shoot for this in my next one) and a marathon of 3:44 (I wish). For training paces, the bottom tells me I should run easy runs at 9:04-9:34 (right on), tempo runs at 7:47-8:07 (right on), and one mile intervals at 7:21-7:37 (also right on). I could probably do my tempo runs a bit faster but I should probably save it for a race. It is interesting that the tempo run pace almost exactly corresponds to what I think my lactate threshold is (pace where my average HR is 80-85% max). I was not using the calculator as intended in my previous post. Just toying with it to try and back into some predicted race times based on training runs. I do not see 5 1 mile repeats as having the same benefit as a 5 mile tempo effort though. You should be doing the repeats at a faster pace than you can sustain for 5 miles continuous effort.

I see what you are saying buyt if you put 40 mins in , it gives you a tempo pace, of 6:31 to 6:48 and cruise intervals of 6:23 to 6:31, and these are what I went for. I could hold a tempo run between the latter times I should think, so this I think is right.

"I've been following Eddy's improvement over the last two years on this site, and it's been pretty dang solid. Sure the weekly mileage has been up and down, but over the long haul he's getting out the door and has turned himself into quite a runner. He's only now just figuring out his potential. Consistency in running is measured in years, not weeks. And over the last couple of years, Eddy's made great strides" Jeff 14 Jan 2009

dgb2n

Dave

posted: 1/19/2008 at 7:00 AM

Sounds like you're on track for the 40 minute 10K then. Maybe faster. If you can hold the cruise interval pace as a tempo pace, it's probably likely you can go even faster on race day. It sounds like you're using the calculator to tell you what your training paces should be for the time you want. I sort of use it as a guide for my training paces based on a race I've already done. As your fitness improves (and yours is improving at light speed), you can do training paces that are faster than your last race effort would indicate. Once you get another race under your belt that you feel represents a really good effort, you can go back and put it in to the calculator for another data point.

I ran a mile and I liked it, liked it, liked it.

dgb2n@yahoo.com

Ennay

A Saucy Wench

posted: 1/19/2008 at 3:44 PM

I am also a fan of the mcmillan calculator....now I am not really sure how long you have been running Eddy, but one of the things I found is that the longer I run the closer I come to the macmillan calculator. 2 years ago I hated it as it made no sense to me. I was much faster than it said at long races and much slower than it said at short ones. I had a virtually flat pace curve. Which was very helpful to me to learn what I needed to do to improve. Two years and one baby later my distance races have gotten a bit faster and my shorter races have gotten a lot faster. Now I find those training paces extremely helpful. I do think it is good to eventually get a race in to use as a training guide, but it isnt a bad place to start. Someone asked what the point was. I think there is a LOT of point in having an idea of what pace you should expect when going into any race longer than a 5K. 5K and under you can go out full throttle and not hurt yourself too badly. (Actually my 5K strategy is to go out as hard as possible - much better times than pacing myself) But anything longer you have got to know if you are overadrenalized at the beginning or not. FWIW last year my races from 5K to Marathon all fell within a couple % of the mcmillan curve and I didnt believe it either until I went out and proved it! No matter how you look at it though, those are some awesome times!

I have become Death, the destroyer of electronic gadgets

"When I got too tired to run anymore I just pretended I wasnt tired and kept running anyway" - dd, age 7

Eddy

Slow-smooth-fast

posted: 1/22/2008 at 3:18 AM

I am going to the track tonight. I will post my workout later.

"I've been following Eddy's improvement over the last two years on this site, and it's been pretty dang solid. Sure the weekly mileage has been up and down, but over the long haul he's getting out the door and has turned himself into quite a runner. He's only now just figuring out his potential. Consistency in running is measured in years, not weeks. And over the last couple of years, Eddy's made great strides" Jeff 14 Jan 2009

s.crissman

posted: 1/22/2008 at 11:39 AM
modified: 1/22/2008 at 11:40 AM

mikeymike & scout's posts are spot on. McMillan is great, and I've had success using the calculator, but you can't use it going the direction you are in this case. It tells you what pace you -should- train at if you -do- run a particular race time. It doesn't say you can't run the workout at a different pace, and it doesn't say that if you achieve a particular training pace it implies anything about your race time. Your 800s workout was great, and it shows that you've improved, but I don't know how much you can predict based on those numbers. The workout was a workout for improvement, not for prediction. If you want to predict your performance, you need to run a workout that has been noted to have some link to performance. Some people have posted specific workouts in the past to help predict race paces. 5k prediction runs are often 3x 1 mile repeat w/ short breaks in between. I have used this in the past with great accuracy/success. Yasso 800s are often used to predict marathon times. I don't know of a workout to predict 10k time, but you could either find one and run it, or use a 5k prediction workout and then use the formula that tells you how performance degrades over time (16-20s per mile increase @ double distance). So, to summarize: - Great workout! You've improved! - This was a performace workout, not a predictive workout. - To get a good prediction, run a workout with known predictive qualities. Keep up the good work, Eddy.

Eddy

Slow-smooth-fast

posted: 1/22/2008 at 11:42 AM

Well If I feel up for it, I may do the 3x1mile with 1minute rest in between this week to see how I fare. I will let you know how I fare tonight at the track.

"I've been following Eddy's improvement over the last two years on this site, and it's been pretty dang solid. Sure the weekly mileage has been up and down, but over the long haul he's getting out the door and has turned himself into quite a runner. He's only now just figuring out his potential. Consistency in running is measured in years, not weeks. And over the last couple of years, Eddy's made great strides" Jeff 14 Jan 2009

Scout7

posted: 1/22/2008 at 11:50 AM

Best prediction of race performance is a race. Why not try to find a local race and run that?

Eddy

Slow-smooth-fast

posted: 1/22/2008 at 6:15 PM

here is what we did tonight at the track: 2x300m 2x400m 2x600m 2x400m 2x300m In between each rep was a 1 minute rest Overall average was 5:05 per mile, with mile splits of: 1-5:12 2-5:11 0.58-2:42(4:41 pace) I worked hard, and felt strong. There are 2 groups at the track, one for average runners like myelf, and one for the top runners, they do extra each set. In my group I lead for most of the intervals which suprised me. Really gives you a confidence boost, and I got a lot of praise off coach. Also noticed that the sub 40 10kers were quite a few seconds behind me each interval, so that is good too. Comments welcome guys.

"I've been following Eddy's improvement over the last two years on this site, and it's been pretty dang solid. Sure the weekly mileage has been up and down, but over the long haul he's getting out the door and has turned himself into quite a runner. He's only now just figuring out his potential. Consistency in running is measured in years, not weeks. And over the last couple of years, Eddy's made great strides" Jeff 14 Jan 2009

Tchuck

SMART Approach

posted: 1/23/2008 at 8:02 AM

Eddy, You obviously have talent but coming off MAF training, I don't see the purpose of hammer interval so quickly. It will affect your aerobic base. For you, these hard intervals are race prep to sharpen you up. Coming off MAF training where your running is fairly comfortable/slow, hammering intervals will erode base and increase injury risk. Be gradual with these. Tempo runs are of more value to you now with perhaps 4 X 200 quick at the end and/or 8 X 100M striders a couple times per week. I would not do anymore speed work than this as you are still getting more fit. Why take away from this? Run a 5k race. This will tell us a lot more about your fitness and then your training paces based on this time.

Run Coach. Recovery Coach. Founder of SMART Approach Training, Coaching & Recovery

Structured Marathon Adaptive Recovery Training

Safe Muscle Activation Recovery Technique

www.smartapproachtraining.com

Eddy

Slow-smooth-fast

posted: 1/23/2008 at 11:39 AM
modified: 1/23/2008 at 11:40 AM

Quote from Tchuck on 1/23/2008 at 8:02 AM:

Eddy, You obviously have talent but coming off MAF training, I don't see the purpose of hammer interval so quickly. It will affect your aerobic base. For you, these hard intervals are race prep to sharpen you up. Coming off MAF training where your running is fairly comfortable/slow, hammering intervals will erode base and increase injury risk. Be gradual with these. Tempo runs are of more value to you now with perhaps 4 X 200 quick at the end and/or 8 X 100M striders a couple times per week. I would not do anymore speed work than this as you are still getting more fit. Why take away from this? Run a 5k race. This will tell us a lot more about your fitness and then your training paces based on this time.

I understand where you are coming from, but this is my current prog and I am sticking with it. I recover with a very easy run tonight, and then do a tempo session tommorrow, with another easy fri, and a long sat and rest sun. I dont feel any twinges and I am continuing to improve, so I am going to stick with it. When I peak/plateau with my pace, I will return to MAF. I wot get any better if I dont push myself, and if I do suspect ay injury coming on I will back off. Got to admit though it was a good session.

"I've been following Eddy's improvement over the last two years on this site, and it's been pretty dang solid. Sure the weekly mileage has been up and down, but over the long haul he's getting out the door and has turned himself into quite a runner. He's only now just figuring out his potential. Consistency in running is measured in years, not weeks. And over the last couple of years, Eddy's made great strides" Jeff 14 Jan 2009

runner92

Just Be

posted: 1/23/2008 at 1:15 PM

Eddy, I'm jealous of you and your track based interval work! The program I've outlined for myself doesn't allow any until May... counting down the days!! Keep up the good work!

My Running Log | Blog of Running Lore

hows my pace? (Read 1332 times)