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How does HM pace *feel* -- is it "conversational"? (Read 1418 times)

    I've heard it elsewhere (and see it written similarly above) ... If you are racing the HM correctly you should be wondering by mile 5 how you are going to hold it together till the end. I agree with this and find concentration and effort make conversation difficult and then, eventually, impossible. If you are well trained and running at race effort I don't see why finish time should matter. It should be hard regardless. If you are running the half as an "event" and can't have a conversation you might not be well trained.

      It depends on what you want out of the race....If your goal is about the 'event', and running with folks, and completing the distance -- and these are all valid and reasonable -- then "conversational" effort is valid and will let you hit all those goals.

       

      If your goal is to run the half marathon as fast you can on that day, then you should be working harder than "conversational" as you've described. Depending on your fitness on race day, you will probably be able to have a short chat or two in the first half of the race, but by 8 or 9mi it should be getting hard, and by 10 or 11, you should be wondering if you're going to make it to the end or puke/die/faint first, and only be able to mutter the odd profanity under your breath in a grunting voice.

       

      I was going to respond but I could not have said it better than this.


      RunsWithDog

        Thank you all so much. Your responses have been very enlightening and helpful!

         

        My goal in finding a pace is to choose one that will help me achieve my best race time possible for this race. I might be slower than many, but I give it my all!

         

        I am going to go try 5 miles today at 9:30. That'll probably kill me, but if it doesn't, and I can do the run (+ wu/cd) without agony, then I will have more data. Three miles (all I had time for) at 9:46 last week felt pretty manageable, so if 9:30 is too much today, then I will scale back and try 5ish miles at 9:45 next week.

         

        Having all your insights in my mind will help me judge things a bit better today.

         

        THANKS SO MUCH!!

         

        (Hi, Rob!!!! Smile Wink

        PRs: 10k 57:30, HM 2:11:12, Full 5:02:57

        Next Up: HM 1/6/13 & Marathon #3 3/24/13

        Training Plan Right Now: Hansons Brothers Beginner Marathon Plan


        jules2

          I'm with "not too swift & baboon" on this as I feel about the same as them.

           

          i concentrate on an even pace and a perfect half for me would be each mile at the same pace but it wouldn't feel like that as the last couple hurt unless you've gone too slow.

           

          i spend most of my times calculating splits, time to,the next mile post, time to finish plus keeping a eye on my heart rate.

           

          i always carry a few jelly babies ( do you have those over the pond? ) and have one at preset mile posts, I rarely drink during one unless it is mega hot as I find it disrupts my rhythm and when I've tried I've often ended choking.

          Old age is when you move from illegal to prescribed drugs.

             

            I am going to go try 5 miles today at 9:30. That'll probably kill me, but if it doesn't, and I can do the run (+ wu/cd) without agony, then I will have more data. Three miles (all I had time for) at 9:46 last week felt pretty manageable, so if 9:30 is too much today, then I will scale back and try 5ish miles at 9:45 next week.

             

            I am not a coach by any means, but this is probably not the best way to go about setting a target.  Unless that tempo/Time trial is part of your overall training plan.  

             

            Run a 10 K all out and that will give you a much better idea of what you are capable of.  Or even a 5K, add 30-40 sec/mile to that 5K pace and that should be your HM pace or 40-50 seconds if you are a low mileage runner like me and does better at the shorter distances.

              I am not a coach by any means, but this is probably not the best way to go about setting a target.  Unless that tempo/Time trial is part of your overall training plan.  

               

              Run a 10 K all out and that will give you a much better idea of what you are capable of.  Or even a 5K, add 30-40 sec/mile to that 5K pace and that should be your HM pace or 40-50 seconds if you are a low mileage runner like me and does better at the shorter distances.

               

              +1. A 5K race will basically help you determine your training paces. You could also do a 2 mile time trial and plug that into a calculator. If you need a good calculator PM me.

               

              For me, if I run 4-5 X 1 mile (90 sec rest between) at my true half marathon pace, that is a very good work out for me. Even 3 X 1 mile works me good on my low miles. I consider that a work out.  I may warm up a mile or two. After that work out, do 4 X 200m or 6-8 X 100m quick and then a mile cooldown.  That is a great HM training work out. It is strenous but not race like. I feel I could go out and run more. Remember, the goal of training is to have select work outs that tax you but not kill you. The goal is train and not overly strain so you can recover fairly quickly. Racelike efforts are left for race day, not a mid week training run.  For non advanced runners, I like to break up the miles as stated above. OR, 20-30 min at HM pace or effort  is an excellent tempo/lactate threshold work out. Any more than 30 min if not advanced and you need to slow the pace or you could do 40 min but make it a progressive run starting easier and working your way toward 10K pace.

              Those who try, fail! Those who do what it takes to succeed, succeed!!

                Ran a 1:32 HM -- about 7:05 pace. I would describe the first 10K as comfortably hard. I was also holding back a bit, since this was my first race at the distance and the second half was going to be hilly.

                 

                The next several miles got progressively harder. I can't tell you how hard the last two miles were because I have absolutely no memory of running them! That might tell you something about the experience, though.....


                RunsWithDog

                  I am not a coach by any means, but this is probably not the best way to go about setting a target.  Unless that tempo/Time trial is part of your overall training plan.  

                   

                  Run a 10 K all out and that will give you a much better idea of what you are capable of.  Or even a 5K, add 30-40 sec/mile to that 5K pace and that should be your HM pace or 40-50 seconds if you are a low mileage runner like me and does better at the shorter distances.

                   

                  Oh, yes, I know this is not the ideal way to guesstimate my ideal HM pace. However, I do not race frequently and do not have frequent local races to choose from. also, I had a marathon a month ago, so the last many months of  training were geared towards preparing for that, then recovering, so this HM in a couple weeks is my first reasonable opportunity to race shorter distances.

                   

                  The HM itself is more of a tune up race for my next marathon. but, i do have 11 weeks between the HM and the marathon, so i feel i can afford to race the HM all out. I only have really raced four races in the couple years I've been running - a HM, a 10k, and two marathons. I've run a couple other races as training runs. But, overall, I don't prefer running short distances, so the appeal of frequent short races isn't there for me. I will try to do some this summer, though, as I know they would be good for me.  So, anyway, my data set is limited. I am ok with having a limited data set and imperfect pace goals. I am just looking for ballpark data. 

                   

                  Fwiw, the 5 miles today  at 9:30 mm went fine. I haven't had a chance to upload the data yet, but will today. My hr settled around 170, so 85% MHR, and several beats below prior HM race pace. I could talk, and I maintained the pace just fine. It felt hard and fast. I don't think I want to try faster, lol. Th. First few miles of the HM are uphill, then the rest is downhill and flat, so I will likely aim for  9:45 for the first few miles, then 9:30 if I am feeling strong after mile 3 or 4, then stay there until the last few miles, then speed up if I have anything left. I would be happy to PR at all, and would be thrilled to hold 9:45 or 9:30. I guess I will find out soon enough if this is doable for me! If I bonk, no big deal. I will have learned something, lol.

                   

                  thanks again!

                  PRs: 10k 57:30, HM 2:11:12, Full 5:02:57

                  Next Up: HM 1/6/13 & Marathon #3 3/24/13

                  Training Plan Right Now: Hansons Brothers Beginner Marathon Plan


                  Jane

                    I can talk during the first 2/3 of my HM; it's not until the last 2-3 miles that I can't but that just may be me.

                     Never run, if you want to never run, don't start because you'll never stop.

                      I don't see how any true 'race pace' can involve conversation regardless of the distance. That said, I can't spit out more than a word or two at HM pace. 

                      MrH



                        i always carry a few jelly babies ( do you have those over the pond? ) 

                         

                        We have jelly beans and gummy bears here. Or a single gummy bear if you prefer

                        The process is the goal.

                        Men heap together the mistakes of their lives, and create a monster they call Destiny.

                          I don't see how any true 'race pace' can involve conversation regardless of the distance. That said, I can't spit out more than a word or two at HM pace. 

                          Can you race the same effort for 1 hr as for, say, 3 hr or 10 hr or longer? This is why the duration makes a difference. Longer races usually take longer to finish.

                           

                          FWIW, we have a local 14mi race (not much longer than HM) where I think someone finally broke 3hr this past summer - one of the faster mtn runners. (9000ft up, 9000ft down) Taking a quick look at your log, it looks like most of your races are on the shorter end, so yes, I can see where you'd not realize that race distance / duration does make a difference in your effort.

                          "So many people get stuck in the routine of life that their dreams waste away. This is about living the dream." - Cave Dog

                            I don't see how any true 'race pace' can involve conversation regardless of the distance. That said, I can't spit out more than a word or two at HM pace. 

                             

                            Is that your HM Pace at the start or finish? 

                              For me it was conversational for about three miles, but I could tell I was running too fast.  I think I was too fired up for the race.  I really started to hurt after about seven miles.

                               

                              If you can run relaxed for the first half of the half marathon, that might be the way to go.  I was going after a fast time and missed it by five minutes because I went out too hard.

                              Mike2921


                                I ran my first half marathon recently and finished in 2:03  My average HR for the race was 163 BPM, and my max HR is 179 BPM.  Averaging  88% of my max heart rate for 2+ hours, I really didn't feel like talking much.  I felt fine until I finished, but then the air seemed to thin a lot.

                                 

                                As many other people have said, it really depends on what you are trying to accomplish.  Do you want to run hard for a particular time or just enjoy the race?

                                 

                                However, based on my experience you will most likely be pleasantly surprised by what you can do in the race.  It is a lot different than in training.

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