Competitor Group Ends Elite Support (Read 613 times)


A Saucy Wench

    Well let's not pretend that the "private" organizations always do better.  PDX marathon has been taken from a great race to a crappy race over the last 10 years.  It appears they are trying to make it as RNR as possible.

    I have become Death, the destroyer of electronic gadgets

     

    "When I got too tired to run anymore I just pretended I wasnt tired and kept running anyway" - dd, age 7

    mab411


    Proboscis Colossus

      So, if CGI drops a race due to low participation and a more serious organization takes it over, do we think the number of "serious" runners that would come back would be enough to make it worth it for the new organization?  I guess it would depend on how much they're spending on all the extras (bands, marketing, apparently huge, ubiquitous sag wagons).

      "God guides us on our journey, but careful with those feet." - David Lee Roth, of all people

         

        Virginia Beach RNR event started in 2001, they created that race here in VB.    We do have some fabulous race clubs here and my guess is that if any such 'worst case scenario' situation ever occurred where RNR started canceling races, J&A racing (Hosters of the Shamrock Marathon) would take it over or something.   I'm just wondering about the several other towns whose major race is the RNR race.  I imagine in Philly there would be plenty of support for taking the RNR race back to private again as well, but wondering most about smaller towns who do not have clubs that host other races in their town.

         

        I loved doing the Shamrock full this year and am registered again for 2014.  I think I'll be putting this on my annual must-do list along with Chicago and Lake Wobegon.  I surely hope J&A doesn't sell out to RnR.

           

          I loved doing the Shamrock full this year and am registered again for 2014.  I think I'll be putting this on my annual must-do list along with Chicago and Lake Wobegon.  I surely hope J&A doesn't sell out to RnR.

           

          Shamrock was my first Marathon in 2011.  I love that race, and am glad it is local to me.  Hell, I could ride my bike from the house to the start line. :-)   I did it in '12, 13, and have already registered for 2014.  J&A racing is owned by 2 folks who are passionate about running and I don't think they would ever sell out. (knock on wood).   J&A hosts 5 good-sized races here throughout the year so I think if any change of ownership ever did occur in the future on a race, it would be J&A picking up another race.

          The Plan '15 edition (big parts)→  /// April '15:  Hampton, VA 24 Hour Run for Cancer  (Goal: >80.1+Miles)  ///   Run streak, at least a mile every single day for 365.  ∞

             

            Shamrock was my first Marathon in 2011.  I love that race, and am glad it is local to me.  Hell, I could ride my bike from the house to the start line. :-)   I did it in '12, 13, and have already registered for 2014.  J&A racing is owned by 2 folks who are passionate about running and I don't think they would ever sell out. (knock on wood).   J&A hosts 5 good-sized races here throughout the year so I think if any change of ownership ever did occur in the future on a race, it would be J&A picking up another race.

            <OFFTOPIC>

            Speaking of the Shamrock, I just got my first email from J&A Racing related to the March 16th marathon.

            </OFFTOPIC>

            Julia1971


              I'm not sure how many serious runners left. If it's a matter of principle, then it makes sense for a "series runner" to boycott an RnR event. But the more I think about it, elites and sub-elites probably have a much different/better marathon experience and maybe aren't as upset about the races themselves. For example, I was in corral 2 and didn't experience the water problems MeaghanSketch discussed. (Edited to add: although, I do remember there was only one woman manning the first water stop but there were plenty of cups to grab).  The course never felt all that crowded.  If I had been an elite, I'm guessing I wouldn't have had to stand in bag check at all - I believe they had a VIP tent at the start and finish - and would have missed all the FUBAR elements of that race. As much as I'm griping, just being in the front meant I didn't have it as bad as most.

               

              So, if CGI drops a race due to low participation and a more serious organization takes it over, do we think the number of "serious" runners that would come back would be enough to make it worth it for the new organization?  I guess it would depend on how much they're spending on all the extras (bands, marketing, apparently huge, ubiquitous sag wagons).

              You're too strong not to keep on keepin' on. - The Pips
              Yes, I am! - Gladys Knight

                So, if CGI drops a race due to low participation and a more serious organization takes it over, do we think the number of "serious" runners that would come back would be enough to make it worth it for the new organization?  I guess it would depend on how much they're spending on all the extras (bands, marketing, apparently huge, ubiquitous sag wagons).

                 

                I think if a local non-profit takes over a race, the whole definition of what makes a race worth it changes, along with the financial structure. Organizations like RunVermont (who put on VCM), the Hartford Marathon Foundation, and my running club (who put on the Baystate Marathon) have completely different values and cost structure than CGI. And more importantly they have completely different local connections within the communities.

                 

                Baystate probably gets a lot more freebies from the local businesses, the City of Lowell, and the other towns it runs through than a national for-profit company would because GLRR has built up so much good will in the area and because many of the city officials and business owners literally are members of the club. Not to mention there's an army of ready volunteers, almost all of whom are runners and know what makes a good race.

                 

                So if CGI were to drop a race and a local running club were to pick it up, they could potentially have a smaller field, charge less, and still have an even that's much more "worth it" to the organization, just due to their much smaller operating budget, margin requirements and end goal.

                 

                A for-profit corporation is going to have a completely different measuring stick for success (revenue growth, revenue growth and revenue growth) than a local running club, who might consider things like percent of the field who BQ's to be as important or more important than the overall size of the field.

                Runners run.

                Julia1971


                  I'm guessing the opposite dynamic might happen in metropolitan areas where many of these events take place. A lot of cities might be hesitant to make concessions, in this current economic climate, without being able to show a return on investment for taxpayers. Which is why, I'm suggesting, in some cases a financially minded, gimmicky group that can bring in tourists might have a better shot at getting concessions from a city than a local group. Just a thought.

                   

                   

                  I think if a local non-profit takes over a race, the whole definition of what makes a race worth it changes, along with the financial structure. Organizations like RunVermont (who put on VCM), the Hartford Marathon Foundation, and my running club (who put on the Baystate Marathon) have completely different values and cost structure than CGI. And more importantly they have completely different local connections within the communities.

                   

                  Baystate probably gets a lot more freebies from the local businesses, the City of Lowell, and the other towns it runs through than a national for-profit company would because GLRR has built up so much good will in the area and because many of the city officials and business owners literally are members of the club. Not to mention there's an army of ready volunteers, almost all of whom are runners and know what makes a good race.

                   

                  So if CGI were to drop a race and a local running club were to pick it up, they could potentially have a smaller field, charge less, and still have an even that's much more "worth it" to the organization, just due to their much smaller operating budget, margin requirements and end goal.

                   

                  A for-profit corporation is going to have a completely different measuring stick for success (revenue growth, revenue growth and revenue growth) than a local running club, who might consider things like percent of the field who BQ's to be as important or more important than the overall size of the field.

                  You're too strong not to keep on keepin' on. - The Pips
                  Yes, I am! - Gladys Knight

                    I'm guessing the opposite dynamic might happen in metropolitan areas where many of these events take place. A lot of cities might be hesitant to make concessions, in this current economic climate, without being able to show a return on investment for taxpayers. Which is why, I'm suggesting, in some cases a financially minded, gimmicky group that can bring in tourists might have a better shot at getting concessions from a city than a local group. Just a thought.

                     

                     

                    Why? What's unique about the metros where CGI events take place versus Hartford, Burlington, Lowell or bigger metros like Boston, New York or Chicago?

                     

                    I think most city governments don't think in terms of ROI nor are they financially literate, which is why a lot of cities finances are in horrible shape. That said, the types of concessions a road race needs from a city generally comes in the form of soft dollars not hard investment. Road closures, use of space, etc. In my experience a local group will ALWAYS have a better chance of securing these types of things from a local government, if nothing else by simply knowing whom to ask and how to do so nicely. A short-term profit minded, gimmicky group who's not invested in the community tends to just step on feet and piss everyone off.

                    Runners run.

                       

                      Why? What's unique about the metros where CGI events take place versus Hartford, Burlington, Lowell or bigger metros like Boston, New York or Chicago?

                       

                      I think most city governments don't think in terms of ROI nor are they financially literate, which is why a lot of cities finances are in horrible shape. That said, the types of concessions a road race needs from a city generally comes in the form of soft dollars not hard investment. Road closures, use of space, etc. In my experience a local group will ALWAYS have a better chance of securing these types of things from a local government, if nothing else by simply knowing whom to ask and how to do so nicely. A short-term profit minded, gimmicky group who's not invested in the community tends to just step on feet and piss everyone off.

                       

                      Mikey, somewhat related point: I look at NYRR as a giant operation and, in many respects, akin to CGI than a local running club. I respect NYRR a great deal, and think they are very well run and give a lot to the running community.

                       

                      That said, I have to pay $225 to run the NYC Marathon and $95-140 to run a Rock n Roll Los Angeles. Even figuring in that NYC is a much bigger city  than LA, who is really supporting the front of the pack, NYRR or me?

                      "If you have the fire, run..." -John Climacus

                        Nice little article from, of all places, Competitor.

                          I have to pay $225 to run the NYC Marathon

                           

                          In fact you don't have to.

                           

                          But the fact that there are orders of magnitude more people willing to do so than there are slots (45,000) in the race speaks to the brand that NYCRR has built by being local, being committed to the sport, and being committed to the development of elite athletes year round and not just once a year on marathon day.

                           

                          By contrast you can register for RnR, which is on Oct 27th, right now if you want. They'll never hit whatever imaginary field limit they put in place.

                           

                          So even if your goal was to maximize revenue, which is not NYCRR's main goal, then whose approach seems to work best? NYCRR is better at CGI's business than CGI and they're not even in the business.

                          Runners run.

                          Julia1971


                            I think there's probably a stronger feeling of "let's help one another" than "what's in it for me". Isn't that why no one wants to live in a city? As it is, people here grouse about road closures for races. For many of them, if they found out they were paying for the inconvenience, they'd be livid. People get tired of these self indulgent hobby joggers messing up their weekend mornings. As it is, the argument that it's bringing in revenue for the city seems to quiet them.

                             

                             

                            Why? What's unique about the metros where CGI events take place versus Hartford, Burlington, Lowell or bigger metros like Boston, New York or Chicago?

                             

                            I think most city governments don't think in terms of ROI nor are they financially literate, which is why a lot of cities finances are in horrible shape. That said, the types of concessions a road race needs from a city generally comes in the form of soft dollars not hard investment. Road closures, use of space, etc. In my experience a local group will ALWAYS have a better chance of securing these types of things from a local government, if nothing else by simply knowing whom to ask and how to do so nicely. A short-term profit minded, gimmicky group who's not invested in the community tends to just step on feet and piss everyone off.

                            You're too strong not to keep on keepin' on. - The Pips
                            Yes, I am! - Gladys Knight


                            A Dance with Monkeys

                              Hey Nads, I know a great November marathon that is a bit less crowded, and is less expensive than $225...

                                Hey Nads, I know a great November marathon that is a bit less crowded, and is less expensive than $225...

                                 

                                and if you're running NY, you're not exactly looking for an easy course/fast time...

                                Know thyself.