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Am I going too slow? (Read 1413 times)


Slow-smooth-fast

    A few of my friends have recently started running and i have been encouraging them by going on runs with them. It has helped me in regards to  my pace, as it I have had to slow down so I have been able to get more miles in and stave off the recurring Achilles injury. My question is will running slower impact on my overall improvement? For example, I am doing the great north run in 8 weeks and I accompanied a friend today on our long run. We covered 13.1m in just over 2 hours whereas on my own I would normally cover about 14.5 in the same time. Any thoughts?

    "I've been following Eddy's improvement over the last two years on this site, and it's been pretty dang solid. Sure the weekly mileage has been up and down, but over the long haul he's getting out the door and has turned himself into quite a runner. He's only now just figuring out his potential. Consistency in running is measured in years, not weeks. And over the last couple of years, Eddy's made great strides" Jeff 14 Jan 2009


    Feeling the growl again

      In general, doing a few runs with people even much, much slower than you will do nothing except make sure that you get in a few recovery runs that are truly recovery.  No downside.

       

      That said, if they are a lot slower than you, you can't be doing a large share of what is intended to be workouts for you at their pace.  So don't do every single long run with the group that slow, or you will not be getting the long run stimulus you are supposed to.  A few certainly doesn't hurt; it actually gives you more time-on-feet than you would have gotten otherwise, but it's a balancing act between that and other adaptations.

      "If you want to be a bad a$s, then do what a bad a$s does.  There's your pep talk for today.  Go Run." -- Slo_Hand

       

        A few of my friends have recently started running and i have been encouraging them by going on runs with them. It has helped me in regards to  my pace, as it I have had to slow down so I have been able to get more miles in and stave off the recurring Achilles injury. My question is will running slower impact on my overall improvement? For example, I am doing the great north run in 8 weeks and I accompanied a friend today on our long run. We covered 13.1m in just over 2 hours whereas on my own I would normally cover about 14.5 in the same time. Any thoughts?

        Eddy:

         

        If you actually have a "recurring" Achilles problem, you should rethink running Great North.  If you don't actually have any issue but you had had an Achilles problem before and that's the reason why you're extra-cautious about going too fast, which, knowing you, could very well be the case, well, remember the best way to avoid running-related injuries is not to run at all.  If you don't have any "live" problem and you're worried about the ghost of past issue by not running too fast but still running 2-hours, etc., that's what I always call "half a$$ solution" which means it's not a solution at all.  

         

        Besides, 8 weeks before a big race, you shouldn't be worried too much about how fast you're running those long runs--those days should be way past and you should now be doing more race-specific training with long runs quite a bit slower than "building-up" period.  Besides, only a mile or so short of what you think you want to be running in a 2-hour run ain't that bad at all.  If it's so slow that you're talking about 15-mile vs. 10 or something, yeah, that's quite a bit slower.  For an 18:57 5k guy, 14-mile in 2-hours is probably right on but as a 3:23 marathon guy, 13-mile 2-hour is right on.  In other words, it's not that big of a difference.

          PS: You had run your 18:57 5k in 2008; ran 3:23 marathon in 2009.  I can't remember what you've been doing since 2009 (injury, sick, just didt feel like running much..., etc.) but, unless you're race-ready now (8 weeks before the big race) and been training like a dog, a little bit slower side is probably better than going too fast.  Again, 14-mile vs. 13-mile in 2-hour is like kettle vs. pot; not that much difference.  But, if you're really worried about your Achilles (that is; if you're physical condition is such), you should be doing 12 instead and skip the race for now.


          Slow-smooth-fast

            PS: You had run your 18:57 5k in 2008; ran 3:23 marathon in 2009.  I can't remember what you've been doing since 2009 (injury, sick, just didt feel like running much..., etc.) but, unless you're race-ready now (8 weeks before the big race) and been training like a dog, a little bit slower side is probably better than going too fast.  Again, 14-mile vs. 13-mile in 2-hour is like kettle vs. pot; not that much difference.  But, if you're really worried about your Achilles (that is; if you're physical condition is such), you should be doing 12 instead and skip the race for now.

             

            As said my running has been up and down like a brides nightie! I suppose the problem with me is my obsessiveness and I push too hard and dont know when to take it easy.

             

            My Achilles feels fine, the odd twinge here and there, I think ultimately I just want to get to the starting line feeling fit and fresh, I know I will not be breaking any records or anything but I just want to get some consistency with my running. I know that I need to string together a good few months of 40-50mpw to start to feel great. FWIW I did the 18:57 off no speed training, just 6 weeks of MAF training so I guess that answers my own question about slower miles.

            "I've been following Eddy's improvement over the last two years on this site, and it's been pretty dang solid. Sure the weekly mileage has been up and down, but over the long haul he's getting out the door and has turned himself into quite a runner. He's only now just figuring out his potential. Consistency in running is measured in years, not weeks. And over the last couple of years, Eddy's made great strides" Jeff 14 Jan 2009

              As said my running has been up and down like a brides nightie! I suppose the problem with me is my obsessiveness and I push too hard and dont know when to take it easy.

               

              My Achilles feels fine, the odd twinge here and there, I think ultimately I just want to get to the starting line feeling fit and fresh, I know I will not be breaking any records or anything but I just want to get some consistency with my running. I know that I need to string together a good few months of 40-50mpw to start to feel great. FWIW I did the 18:57 off no speed training, just 6 weeks of MAF training so I guess that answers my own question about slower miles.

              Eddy:

               

              This last post of yours represents what most of us face really well--we all have the answers in our hands; we just don't know they're there or how to see them as answers.

               

              Once again, I don't mean to come out here and try to sell our on-line training program but we have created Running Wizard just to answer some of the questions that you have.  How slow (or fast) should you train?  How do we know when to run fast and when to go slow?  How to put the training program together...???  I got 13-14 miles in 2 hours by plugging in your 5k and marathon time into our Race Time Predictor and VO2Max Estimator formula.

               

              Say, if you feel comfortable running 20-minutes 5k right now (considering you've run 18:57 4 years ago and you've been running off and on) and you can run for 2 hours now and, let's just say you are shooting for a 10k race at the end of December (I don't know if you are); this is what your week right now should look like--and this should give you somewhere around 45-50MPW:

               

              24 weeks before race

              PhaseDateRankWorkoutDistanceDurationPaceRPEMin
              Max
              Aerobic 7/15/2012
              Sunday
              1

              Long Aerobic Run

              14 mi

              (11 - 16 mi)

              2:00:00

              (1:42:00 - 2:12:00)

              8:39 / mi

              (9:26 - 8:13 / mi)

              3 - 5 130 149
              Aerobic 7/16/2012
              Monday
              7

              Easy Fartlek

              5.5 mi

              (4 - 6.5 mi)

              45:00

              (39:00 - 50:00)

              8:21 / mi

              (9:05 - 7:55 / mi)

              2 - 6 121 157
              Aerobic 7/17/2012
              Tuesday
              3

              Aerobic Run

              10.5 mi

              (8.5 - 12.5 mi)

              1:30:00

              (1:17:00 - 1:39:00)

              8:26 / mi

              (9:13 - 8:00 / mi)

              3 - 5 130 149
              Aerobic 7/18/2012
              Wednesday
              6

              Easy Fartlek

              6 mi

              (4.5 - 7 mi)

              51:00

              (43:00 - 56:00)

              8:34 / mi

              (9:21 - 8:05 / mi)

              2 - 6 121 157
              Aerobic 7/19/2012
              Thursday
              4

              Aerobic Run

              12 mi

              (9 - 13.5 mi)

              1:40:00

              (1:26:00 - 1:50:00)

              8:26 / mi

              (9:13 - 8:00 / mi)

              3 - 5 130 149
              Aerobic 7/20/2012
              Friday
              5

              Strides

              (15 minutes warm up, 15 minutes cool down)

              6-10 X 100m

              0:23

              Fast and Relaxed

              2 - 6 121 157
              Aerobic 7/21/2012
              Saturday
              2

              Out & Back

              6.5 mi

              (5 - 7.5 mi)

              53:00

              (44:00 - 58:00)

              8:00 / mi

              (8:44 - 7:37 / mi)

              4 - 7 139 162

               

              It gives a structure most people don't seem to have; it gives you when to run hard, when to run easy, how fast or slow each run should be, etc.  It's still nothing more than a guide but it's a very reasonable guide.


              Slow-smooth-fast

                I like the look of this. I will have a look. Wait till I get paid and may invest. I need structure.

                "I've been following Eddy's improvement over the last two years on this site, and it's been pretty dang solid. Sure the weekly mileage has been up and down, but over the long haul he's getting out the door and has turned himself into quite a runner. He's only now just figuring out his potential. Consistency in running is measured in years, not weeks. And over the last couple of years, Eddy's made great strides" Jeff 14 Jan 2009

                  I like the look of this. I will have a look. Wait till I get paid and may invest. I need structure.

                  We also have Recovery Indicators that would tell you whether or not you're overtraining--something you'd probably need; reassurance.

                    Eddy,

                     

                    This is something I struggle with at times too. My son is about 1 minute slower than me in a 5k, and doesn't have the mileage base I do, so his easy days (btw, he's very good about going easy on his easy days) are much slower than I normally run. But, I still run with him on my recovery/easy days for a variety of reasons, but it forces me to run slow enough to recover better. I did that a lot last year and it led to my best marathon ever.

                     

                    To add some assurance to this I'm reminded of a time I was on a group run, and many of us were surprised when another runner showed up that was coming off a 2:36 marathon and on any day could blow away any of us.  When we went through the first mile in about 7:30 or so, the fast guy was a bit disgusted and said, "don't you guys ever run easy?"  


                    Slow-smooth-fast

                       To add some assurance to this I'm reminded of a time I was on a group run, and many of us were surprised when another runner showed up that was coming off a 2:36 marathon and on any day could blow away any of us.  When we went through the first mile in about 7:30 or so, the fast guy was a bit disgusted and said, "don't you guys ever run easy?"  

                       

                      Nice one Tom, I like that!

                      "I've been following Eddy's improvement over the last two years on this site, and it's been pretty dang solid. Sure the weekly mileage has been up and down, but over the long haul he's getting out the door and has turned himself into quite a runner. He's only now just figuring out his potential. Consistency in running is measured in years, not weeks. And over the last couple of years, Eddy's made great strides" Jeff 14 Jan 2009

                        Eddy,

                         

                        This is something I struggle with at times too. My son is about 1 minute slower than me in a 5k, and doesn't have the mileage base I do, so his easy days (btw, he's very good about going easy on his easy days) are much slower than I normally run. But, I still run with him on my recovery/easy days for a variety of reasons, but it forces me to run slow enough to recover better. I did that a lot last year and it led to my best marathon ever.

                         

                        To add some assurance to this I'm reminded of a time I was on a group run, and many of us were surprised when another runner showed up that was coming off a 2:36 marathon and on any day could blow away any of us.  When we went through the first mile in about 7:30 or so, the fast guy was a bit disgusted and said, "don't you guys ever run easy?"  

                         

                        While I understand the point being made, it seems odd that a 2:36 guy wouldn't find 7:30 to be very relaxing and easy.  

                        They say golf is like life, but don't believe them. Golf is more complicated than that. "If I am still standing at the end of the race, hit me with a Board and knock me down, because that means I didn't run hard enough" If a lot of people gripped a knife and fork the way they do a golf club, they'd starve to death. "Don't fear moving slowly forward...fear standing still."

                          While I understand the point being made, it seems odd that a 2:36 guy wouldn't find 7:30 to be very relaxing and easy.  

                           

                          It was very easy for this guy... and I think that was exactly his point. He knows that most of the other runners aren't even 7:00 mpm marathoners, and yet they were running near MP for a long training run on a hilly course. And, the pace nearly always quickens after the first mile or two.  

                            While I understand the point being made, it seems odd that a 2:36 guy wouldn't find 7:30 to be very relaxing and easy.  

                             

                            As a 2:36ish guy, it is very rare that I would run the first mile of my easy runs in 7:30. It takes a little while to get warmed up!

                              As a 2:36ish guy, it is very rare that I would run the first mile of my easy runs in 7:30. It takes a little while to get warmed up!

                               

                              This makes sense, I notice the same thing on my runs. A first mile mid 8's is often not easy, especially if it is a morning run. 

                              They say golf is like life, but don't believe them. Golf is more complicated than that. "If I am still standing at the end of the race, hit me with a Board and knock me down, because that means I didn't run hard enough" If a lot of people gripped a knife and fork the way they do a golf club, they'd starve to death. "Don't fear moving slowly forward...fear standing still."