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Finish order vs. chip time order (Read 236 times)


ultramarathon/triathlete

    There's probably been discussion on this. Honestly, I didn't look. 

     

    I ran the T.E.A.L. 5k in Brooklyn this past weekend.  I'm trying to hit up all the small, local races since they usually let people push a jogging stroller (or in my case, a double jogging stroller).  This way my wife and I can both race.

     

    I started back into the pack (field of maybe 200) so I would not get in anyone's way.  One of the race organizers came over to talk to me (he wanted to see my 9 month twins) and I casually said I'm back here so I won't get in the way, but I fully intend to pass all these people."  He laughed, probably thinking I was joking, and thanked me for being polite with my start position.

     

    Gun went off, I walked the stroller to the start line with the rest of the slow moving pack.  We crossed the timing mat and I immediately sprinted  to the far right to get out of the way and start passing people.

    First mile was downhill and we were flying. I clocked a 5:35 mile which was a bit too fast but it moved me from maybe 150th to 6th or 7th place.

    Mile two was flat and I could feel the mistake of that early sprint.  I picked off a few more and moved to 3rd place.

    4th place and I went back and forth and he finally dropped me at a solid uphill with about a mile to go, but no one else caught me on the hill.  Top of the hill with half a mile to go I made a move and caught 3rd but he wouldn't have a stroller guy passing him so we pushed back and forth for the final stretch gaining on 2nd place but he outstrided me into the chute.  I thought I was going to puke from the effort --it was great and I was thankful he made me work!  I ended up 4th place at 19:12 on my watch (didn't see the clock), missing 3rd by one second, missing 2nd by 3 seconds.  First place ran a solid 17:03 annihilating the field.

     

    After I cooled down and grabbed a water, I met up with my wife who also had a great race, we fed the twins (who were good and didn't cry at all during the race, which was the real win) and it occurred to me I must have started several seconds back from the guys who out-sprinted me.  Maybe I actually beat them.

     

    I asked the event's MC if they did awards by chip time or finish order, she had no idea.  She just knew they did first, second and third place m/f overall (no AGs).  I couldn't find the RD and anyway, I figured he had better things to do so I dropped it.  Awards were called and I wasn't in the top 3  :-(  Oh well.

    But then the third place guy found me in the crowd and gave me his medal, saying I earned it.  I declined but he insisted.  So I put it around my son's neck, and he ate it (or tried to).

    Later, I checked the race website and I was listed as 2nd place based on time, but noted as 1st in AG, not 2nd place overall.  It turns out I actually beat the 2nd place guy by 20 seconds, and the guy who out-sprinted me to the chute for third, but about 30 seconds.

     

    This was a small race to raise money for a charity, so their primary focus is not on the race at all.  But the group who actually RD'd the race does this for the charity groups a lot, so they, in theory, know what they're doing.  But, it's not really a big deal in the scheme of things, I was happy to have a solid effort.

     

    But, I ask, should they have gone over the times to see the real order, or is it legit to go by finish order for top 3 spots?  I think I once read that the big marathons go by finish order for top spots but times for AG spots.  Maybe the theory is that it's not fair to someone who might not know how far back you started, and might not run as hard if they don't physically see a threat.

    HTFU?  Why not!

    Coach: Empire Tri Club 

    Speed Coach: Brooklyn Tri Club
    USATF Coach

      Every race I've done with awards has been awarded by gun time, not chip time. If you start at the back or the front of the pack makes a difference if you think you are going to place.

      "Don't feel like running today...suck it up and run ...you're an athlete." (John Stanton, founder & owner of The Running Room)

       

      Three half marathons later, I got a number. Half Fanatic #9292. :)

      bluerun


      Super B****

        USATF rules = gun time... so I guess that's what they'd use for awards purposes.

          Chip time is for racing against yourself.

           

          Gun time is for racing against other people.

          "When a person trains once, nothing happens. When a person forces himself to do a thing a hundred or a thousand times, then he certainly has developed in more ways than physical. Is it raining? That doesn't matter. Am I tired? That doesn't matter, either. Then willpower will be no problem." 
          Emil Zatopek

            Gun time for OA awards, chip time for AG awards.  Makes sense, 'cause you don't want 9:00/mi. 60 y/os trying to crowd out the 24 y/os at the start line.

            Well at least someone here is making relevance to the subject.

              Sounds like standard practice to me.  Overall finish is almost always determined by gun time while AG determined by chip.

              A 5:35 first mile, downhill, while pushing (trying to brake?) a double stroller from the very back of the pack?  Careful, man!

                Gun time for OA awards, chip time for AG awards.  Makes sense, 'cause you don't want 9:00/mi. 60 y/os trying to crowd out the 24 y/os at the start line.

                 

                This is pretty much the standard around here.

                  It's a race so I hate it when I kill myself to outkick someone and later find out they finished "ahead" of me.


                  just a simple cat

                    Every race I've done with awards has been awarded by gun time, not chip time. If you start at the back or the front of the pack makes a difference if you think you are going to place.

                     

                    Not the race you just ran (Queen City Half Marathon)  age group awards were by chip time

                     

                    Running is stupid

                    Julia1971


                      +2.  I've noticed that some races that give an overall master's winner will also give that award based on gun rather than chip time. So, the fastest of the old people might also line up near the front.

                       

                      And I think there was a recent thread about this.

                       

                      Gun time for OA awards, chip time for AG awards.  Makes sense, 'cause you don't want 9:00/mi. 60 y/os trying to crowd out the 24 y/os at the start line.

                      You're too strong not to keep on keepin' on. - The Pips
                      Yes, I am! - Gladys Knight

                        +2.  I've noticed that some races that give an overall master's winner will also give that award based on gun rather than chip time. So, the fastest of the old people might also line up near the front.

                         

                        Darn right.  This old person always lines up at the front and I don't give a rip what the youngsters up there think about it, 'cuz I'm not going to give any kind of handicap to some other geezer.

                        - Joe

                        We are fragile creatures on collision with our judgment day.

                           'cause you don't want 9:00/mi. 60 y/os trying to crowd out the 24 y/os at the start line.

                           

                          Unless you can smoke most of those youngsters.  We've got a local guy here (was featured a while back in RT, actually) who is 50-something and ran 15:54 in a Labor Day race.  Wasn't fast enough to win OA, but he buried a whole lotta youngstas!

                          - Joe

                          We are fragile creatures on collision with our judgment day.


                          an amazing likeness

                            Whether it's on gun or chip time, it's been my experience that most race info sites are fairly good about stating their policy, a few examples:

                             

                            "Awards for the marathon and half marathon will be given to the top five overall male and female finishers, the top three male and female masters, and the first wheelchair, as determined by gun times."

                             

                            "Prize money is based on gun time and will be awarded as follows..."

                             

                            " All age category awards will be calculated using Net/Chip time...."

                            Choosing my words carefully has never been my strength I've been known to be vague and often pointless

                               

                              Not the race you just ran (Queen City Half Marathon)  age group awards were by chip time

                               

                              Well, I stand corrected. I read it once probaby but I'm so damn far from any AG awards that I guess it didn't stick. Oops! Disregard what I said.

                              "Don't feel like running today...suck it up and run ...you're an athlete." (John Stanton, founder & owner of The Running Room)

                               

                              Three half marathons later, I got a number. Half Fanatic #9292. :)


                              ultramarathon/triathlete

                                Well, I guess if I keep racing with the stroller (in which case I'll keep starting from behind) I'm gonna have to suck it up and get used to it, or train more and run faster!  Just happy to be able to race still and post some relatively good times.   Plus, it's a big pleasure on its own to pass people with that giant stroller  :-)

                                HTFU?  Why not!

                                Coach: Empire Tri Club 

                                Speed Coach: Brooklyn Tri Club
                                USATF Coach

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