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Once-a-Day Marathon Training (Yuki Kawauchi) (Read 3057 times)

    For those who are limited to once-a-day training: Click.

    "If you have the fire, run..." -John Climacus


    Feeling the growl again

      Very good article.  Thanks.

      "If you want to be a bad a$s, then do what a bad a$s does.  There's your pep talk for today.  Go Run." -- Slo_Hand

       

         thanks for posting Nader! 

          First time I read about the 80 minutes being a magic number of sorts for aerobic development, Others have it at 90+.  If I can get 2 medium long runs of 80-90 minutes in addition to a long run of 2 + hours each week, I think I'll see a lot of improvement in my running, but getting those 90 minute blocks midweek is the tough part.  Maybe need to start running in the morning.

          Shoe


            Even some helpful advice for those looking for doubles.

             

            “ we have to start including doubles,” he says. “But we still take advantage of the 80-minute rule for our doubles, where we will have one of the runs at 10 miles or more.”


            Feeling the growl again

              Even some helpful advice for those looking for doubles.

               

              “ we have to start including doubles,” he says. “But we still take advantage of the 80-minute rule for our doubles, where we will have one of the runs at 10 miles or more.”

               

              Even when I was running my highest mileage it was very, VERY rare for the shorter run to be over 8 miles....average was 6-7.  The most I ever ran in a week, I think it was 131 miles, most days were runs of 8 and 12 per day.

              "If you want to be a bad a$s, then do what a bad a$s does.  There's your pep talk for today.  Go Run." -- Slo_Hand

               


              an amazing likeness

                Nader -- screw the marathon training...we need to know if the printer is working better?

                Choosing my words carefully has never been my strength I've been known to be vague and often pointless

                  It is interesting--I always thought it was 90-minutes and 2-hours being even a bigger "magic" number; not much as a rule per se but I actually do feel it in my body.

                   

                  That said, however, I've found it so very interesting that, for the longest time, what Japanese marathon runners do has been more or less unknown and/or who-cares.  At some other message boards, concensus seems to be that because Kenyans had run a few minutes faster than Japanese or Kenyans had a half a dozen more runners running sub-2:20 (in the women's case) or things like that.  Naturally, it's not a secret to me at all; as a matter of fact, I have an interview (which I've done myself) where 2 of the leading coaches from Japan both saying, simply, as the secret of Japanese success being "volume".  Yes, most of them run a lot (about 1000 to 1200km per month); yes, most of them run quite a bit slower than most people think (8-minute-mile pace in the case of this 2:06 guy); and, yes, they do doubles or triples.  Most of them do.  And that's what got them to where they are.  Out came ONE runner who ran 2:08 once and all of a sudden he has become THE Japanese marathonr runner.  Every where you go, letsrun message board, RW, and now Running Times, his information (some, misinformation) is ALL OVER the place.  It is a secret desire of American runners to prove that the less is better.  I remember when Kawauchi ran his 2:08 and I read his INTERVIEW in one of Japanese newspaper where he said he occasionally runs up to 5-hours of cross country run.  I posted that at letsrun and many jumped all over the place by saying; "Well, it says he 'only' runs 80-miles a week; how the hell can he run a single 50-miler and get 80MPW...!???"

                   

                  Take what you want; Kawauchi did well.  He's got a full-time job, he's doing well though his weakness has already shown.  I'm glad to see, at least, that in this article, it seems (I haven't read the whole thing yet) the author is talking about the importance of single long run of over 80-minutes--not like quick and simple "less is better".  Having read this, I would still strongly encourage runners to double if they can (particularly young aspiring runners).  So what if Hudson says your body can take longer recovery by doing single?  I'd counter by saying you'd be teaching your body to recover quickly by doubling.  Yes, Kawauchi has done well.  But he's still ONE example.  They have 200 other female marathon runners who had run faster than 2:40 by doubling and tripling and running lots of volume and some 120 men who had run faster than 2:15 (I don't know, I can't remember the exact numbers...) who also double and triple and run lots of volume.


                  Bacon Party!

                    Heh. Whaddaya know.

                     

                    I'm currently running 4 days / week. Weekly mileage is 90-100.

                    All of my runs are singles....

                    20 miles on Monday, Wednesday, and Friday.

                    30-40 miles on Saturday (alternating weekends of shorter and longer).

                     

                    I've got tempos and hill workouts in there, too.

                     

                    Of course, I'm not training for typical road races... ultras are my thing. And, for me, I've found that continuous time-on-feet is crucial to avoiding/delaying "shankle" pain during races.

                    I also like having nearly 48 hours of recovery and put a good bit of effort into it with icing, foam rollering, good nutrition, rest/sleep, etc. (My 40-something-year-old bones and connective tissues [that have only been running 2 years] seem to be appreciating this added time. [knock on wood!])

                     

                    The start of my racing season has been a bit delayed this year, but we'll soon see how this training strategy pays off.

                    Liz

                    pace sera, sera

                       Maybe need to start running in the morning.

                       

                      That's key for me. There are days (most really) that it is very hard to get up and going. But, if I don't the stuff of life gets normally preempts an evening run, or shortens what I have time for. Plus, there's something peaceful about getting up at the crack of dawn and being out there all alone for a run. 

                        That's key for me. There are days (most really) that it is very hard to get up and going. But, if I don't the stuff of life gets normally preempts an evening run, or shortens what I have time for. Plus, there's something peaceful about getting up at the crack of dawn and being out there all alone for a run. 

                         +10


                        Feeling the growl again

                          That's key for me. There are days (most really) that it is very hard to get up and going. But, if I don't the stuff of life gets normally preempts an evening run, or shortens what I have time for. Plus, there's something peaceful about getting up at the crack of dawn and being out there all alone for a run. 

                           

                          Well, that one hits close to home...

                          "If you want to be a bad a$s, then do what a bad a$s does.  There's your pep talk for today.  Go Run." -- Slo_Hand

                           

                             So what if Hudson says your body can take longer recovery by doing single?  I'd counter by saying you'd be teaching your body to recover quickly by doubling.  Yes, Kawauchi has done well.  But he's still ONE example.  They have 200 other female marathon runners who had run faster than 2:40 by doubling and tripling and running lots of volume and some 120 men who had run faster than 2:15 (I don't know, I can't remember the exact numbers...) who also double and triple and run lots of volume.

                             

                            The thesis of the article was not that singles or low mileage was better than doubles and high mileage, but that one can train for a good marathon using singles, and how to do it.

                              Heh. Whaddaya know.

                               

                              I'm currently running 4 days / week. Weekly mileage is 90-100.

                              All of my runs are singles....

                              20 miles on Monday, Wednesday, and Friday.

                              30-40 miles on Saturday (alternating weekends of shorter and longer).

                               

                              I've got tempos and hill workouts in there, too.

                               

                              Of course, I'm not training for typical road races... ultras are my thing. And, for me, I've found that continuous time-on-feet is crucial to avoiding/delaying "shankle" pain during races.

                              I also like having nearly 48 hours of recovery and put a good bit of effort into it with icing, foam rollering, good nutrition, rest/sleep, etc. (My 40-something-year-old bones and connective tissues [that have only been running 2 years] seem to be appreciating this added time. [knock on wood!])

                               

                              The start of my racing season has been a bit delayed this year, but we'll soon see how this training strategy pays off.

                               

                              And.... it would appear to be working rather well for you!

                                First time I read about the 80 minutes being a magic number of sorts for aerobic development, Others have it at 90+.  If I can get 2 medium long runs of 80-90 minutes in addition to a long run of 2 + hours each week, I think I'll see a lot of improvement in my running, but getting those 90 minute blocks midweek is the tough part.  Maybe need to start running in the morning.

                                 

                                Paraphrasing something that Mikey once said (I can't be bothered to find it - but Nads probably will) - there is no one point when you transition from burning glycogen to burning fat, it doesn't magically happen at 90 mins. The proportion of fat burned increases with the length of the run. The same is true for aerobic development I guess. Smile
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