123

Training paces for Pfitz 18/70? (Read 249 times)


Mmmmm...beer

    So, I'm toying with the idea of starting a Pfitz 18/70 plan in a few weeks to train for a Sept marathon, and I'm wondering what to use for training paces.  Should I just plug my times from a recent race into McMillan and use those paces?  I have a couple of recent halfs and I have a 5k coming up on Saturday that I can use.  This will be my first time using a structured plan.  Thanks.

    -Dave

     

    2014 Goals | sub-19 5k done! | sub-40 10k | sub-1:25 HM | BQ done! | sub-3 M


    I'm back!

      Yep! Good luck, have fun. It's a good plan.


      Mmmmm...beer

        Thanks.  I'll have some short races throughout the summer, should I correct my training paces as I go if I see improvements, even at the shorter distances (5ks mostly)?

        -Dave

         

        2014 Goals | sub-19 5k done! | sub-40 10k | sub-1:25 HM | BQ done! | sub-3 M


        I'm back!

          Yes. You will probably find your VO2Max and LT paces improving as the plan progresses. MP is trickier; I think Pfitz tells you to use goal MP, but I might be misremembering. Some say you should do those at current MP; there are arguments either way.


          Mmmmm...beer

            That was going to be my next question, I believe Pfitz does mention goal MP, but I don't really know what that will be.  My original plan was to run my first marathon next spring and shoot for a sub-3:00, but then I decided to bump up the schedule and see if I can BQ this year and run Boston next year, instead of 2015.  McMillan has me at a 3:05:33 marathon based off of my recent half PR, which would be a BQ (3:10 for me for 2014).  Of course, if I could BQ-10, that would put me in a safer position for registration, which I think is going to fill up very quickly.  Guess I'll just have to see how I'm looking coming out of the other side the training.  Unfortunately, I don't see any decent tuneup races in July/August, it's all 5Ks.

            -Dave

             

            2014 Goals | sub-19 5k done! | sub-40 10k | sub-1:25 HM | BQ done! | sub-3 M

              I really liked the Pfitz plan. It is goal MP in the plan. The first time I used Pfitz I was too aggressive with my goal pace. The MP runs felt really hard. Uncomfortably hard. I ended up going out too fast at Sugarloaf, crashed at mile 20 and jog-walked the last 6. The 2nd time I ran Pfitz I relaxed a bit about the MP runs and went more with my current MP rather than goal MP. i also raced more. It went much better. My last MP run, which was 20 w/14 @ MP, felt great. It felt like a tempo run - good effort but I wasn't gassed at the end. And the pace was quicker than planned. Philly went much better. I guess I'd just say to err on the side of running the MP runs conservatively. You can pick up the pace at the end of an MP run If you feel strong. i obsessed over the MP runs my first go-round. I'd recommend not doing that.

               

              Julia1971


                Have you read the book?  If so, I think it does a pretty good job of describing how to determine most of the paces.  They don't align very well with McMillan, I don't think.

                 

                And, EGH3 describes goal MP pace pretty well in my experience with Pfitz.

                Run the mile you are in.


                Mmmmm...beer

                  Thanks EGH3 and Julia.  I have read the book, but don't recall much about paces, guess I should read it again. Smile

                  -Dave

                   

                  2014 Goals | sub-19 5k done! | sub-40 10k | sub-1:25 HM | BQ done! | sub-3 M


                  I'm back!

                    I think using 5k pace for the VO2max stuff and one-hour pace for LT is what's intended, and works well. I agree with what's said above re MP. Especially the first couple of times using the plan, I found those workouts very difficult, and easy to botch.


                    Mmmmm...beer

                      I looked through the book again, don't know how I missed the pace charts in the back, duh.  I'll make sure to play it safe with the first couple of MP runs and see how it goes.  Probably do like EGH3 suggested, go out at current MP and if I feel good push it a lil towards the end.

                       

                      I've been kind of anti-plan so far in my running, just keeping everything easy and running whenever and however far I felt like.  So it'll be interesting to have to stick to a plan/schedule.  But it's probably what I need at this point to step up my game.

                      -Dave

                       

                      2014 Goals | sub-19 5k done! | sub-40 10k | sub-1:25 HM | BQ done! | sub-3 M

                      Julia1971


                        I actually wasn't thinking about that part but that's helpful, too.

                         

                        If you're into heart race, see Table 1.2 on page 19.  If you're not...

                         

                        Long and medium run pace - see page 15 and 16, particularly Table 1.1

                        Recovery run pace - see the last paragraph on page 62 (roughly 2 min./mile slower than 10 mile to half marathon pace)

                        General aerobic pace - see page 141 (I don't think he describes this pace other than by heart rate.  I tend to use MP+20% pace)

                        Lactate threshold pace - see page 141 (roughly 15K to half marathon pace)

                         

                        And, I wasn't trying to be a wise acre or whatever.  It's just that the last time I responded to a question about Pfitz, it turned out the OP hadn't actually read the book so I wasn't going to assume you had.  Smile

                         

                        Good luck!  I love the Pfitz plans.

                         

                        I looked through the book again, don't know how I missed the pace charts in the back, duh.  I'll make sure to play it safe with the first couple of MP runs and see how it goes.  Probably do like EGH3 suggested, go out at current MP and if I feel good push it a lil towards the end.

                         

                        I've been kind of anti-plan so far in my running, just keeping everything easy and running whenever and however far I felt like.  So it'll be interesting to have to stick to a plan/schedule.  But it's probably what I need at this point to step up my game.

                        Run the mile you are in.


                        Mmmmm...beer

                          Thanks Julia!  I know you didn't mean anything by it.  I will admit tho that I only casually read it, since I was planning on reading it several more times before I started a plan in the fall.  But now that I've bumped up the schedule, I'll read it in earnest a couple of more times before I start the plan in a few weeks.

                          -Dave

                           

                          2014 Goals | sub-19 5k done! | sub-40 10k | sub-1:25 HM | BQ done! | sub-3 M

                            Dtt2, just keep in mind that you are new enough to this whole running thing--certainly this whole training seriously thing--that you're still somewhat on your newbie improvement curve. This means your race paces (and therefore training paces) are going to be somewhat of a moving target for a while. So learning what 5k effort and marathon pace effort feel like will be valuable skills at this point. 5k effort never changes, even as 5k pace gets faster. The other thing I will add is that when in doubt, do your workouts a little slower than you think is right. You get 99% of the benefit of the workout just by doing it and being able to complete it--the exact pace is not that important. What's most important is the entirety of your training so erring on the side of too slow will ensure that you can complete the schedule without breaking down, having to skip workouts, or getting injured.

                            Runners run.

                              I think you have done very well on your own training plan.

                               

                              Talking about the Pfitz plan, some of the workout will stretch you a bit. I think a lot of people including myself over trained using the Pfitz plans. From my experience, the pace for each workout is rather important, especially the easy run. Easy runs let your legs get well recovered for the next hard workout. Otherwise, Potentially getting injury is high.

                               

                              Good luck for your sub-3:00 attempt.

                              5k - 20:56 (09/12), 7k - 28:40 (11/12), 10k trial - 43:08  (03/13), 42:05 (05/13), FM - 3:09:28 (05/13), HM - 1:28:20 (05/14), Failed 10K trial - avg 6:10/mi for 4mi (29/08/14)


                              Mmmmm...beer

                                Thanks Mike & David!  I'm definitely going to have to make sure I keep my easy runs easy.  I've gotten in the habit of just letting my legs go, and running faster if they feel good, can't let that happen if the schedule calls for an easy run, gotta stick to the plan.  Good advice on focusing more on getting the workouts done and less on the pace Mike, I'll make sure to keep that in mind as I progress.  I'm really looking forward to seeing what I can do with some more focused training.

                                -Dave

                                 

                                2014 Goals | sub-19 5k done! | sub-40 10k | sub-1:25 HM | BQ done! | sub-3 M

                                123