Forums >Gears and Wears>GPS III Technology and Running Watches?
Does anyone know (joescott)? if the new GPS III technology is going to be something that affects running watches?
Or is it just newer and better satellites that the current user devices will all benefit from improved signal.
I've been thinking about buying a GPS watch, but can hold off a year or so if this is going to be a revolutionary improvement or something.
Thanks, Nathan
Age: 50 Weight: 224 Height: 6'3" (Goal weight 195)
Current PR's: Mara 3:14:36* (2017); HM 1:36:13 (2017); 10K 43:59 (2014); 5K 21:12 (2016)
I didn't know there was a new/improved flavor of GPS coming out. Here's what I found on the Lockheed Martin site:
GPS IIIGPS satellites now on orbit are aging quickly and users are demanding more capability. To sustain and modernize the constellation, the U.S. Air Force and Lockheed Martin are buidling the next generation satellite system, known as GPS III.
GPS III will improve position, navigation and timing services and provide advanced anti-jam capabilities yielding superior system security, accuracy and reliability. The first GPS III satellites will deliver signals three times more accurate than current GPS spacecraft and provide three times more power for military users, while also enhancing the spacecraft’s design life and adding a new civil signal designed to be interoperable with international global navigation satellite systems.
Waiting for what Joe has to say about this. Pretty cool!
Gotta run into a meeting to discuss some gps athletic products here for a couple of hours. I'll comment as soon as i can.
- Joe
We are fragile creatures on collision with our judgment day.
an amazing likeness
As an aside...we passed a notable anniversary as Feb 14th was the 25th anniversary of the 1989 launch of the first of the (current) GPS satellites. Quarter of a century...there are young adults today who've never had to read a paper map, or fold one of the darn things to get it back into the plastic sleeve.
Acceptable at a dance, invaluable in a shipwreck.
I came across this on one of the hunting forums that I frequent a few months ago, and I think it is going to be a big improvement there, but those devices are a lot bigger than the GPS watches. I think some of the personal rescue beacons and SPOT messengers and things like that should really benefit from the new technology as well.
My understanding is that it is a whole new signal and won't be compatible with the legacy type devices, that's why I'm wondering about holding off on buying a new device.
Not a lot of details out there on it yet, heck I think they've had some delays and haven't even got the satellites launched yet, but I think some folks like joescott might know a LOT more than I do on this.
I can't see holding off for a better running watch (that might be years off) than what exists now. The good GPS watches on the market perform incredibly well for their purpose and are trivially inexpensive in the grand scheme of things. Odds are you'll have gotten your money's worth and then some and worn out whatever watch you buy now, by the time this next gen tech makes its way to running watches.
And this .02 is from a guy who for the longest time didn't see the need for a GPS watch at all.
Runners run
Yeah, I actually don't have a GPS watch, I just use my iPhone. I've been running more trail runs lately and between the twists and turns and the occasional heavy tree cover the iPhone GPS is almost worthless. Most current GPS watches struggle with those types of conditions as well so right now I'm not sure if it would be worth it to upgrade to one.
My Garmin GPSMAP 62S that I use when I'm hunting does pretty good in heavy tree cover in the mountains and other terrain that give GPS watches difficulty, but it isn't something I would really want to carry around with me on a run.
The whole 3 times more powerful signal thing has me thinking that it might be just a year or so before some really impressive stuff starts hitting the market that doesn't get "lost" as easy.
Feeling the growl again
Except that they are still talking about launching the satellites necessary. The new constellation of satellites is not in orbit, so I think it's going to be a lot longer than a year. IMHO if you bought a device today it'll be about worn out by the time the new satellites are operational and the civilian device market has caught up. Perhaps Joe can prove me wrong.
I would love GPS that can handle trees better. I had a rather unpleasant experience during spring turkey season due to losing GPS in some rough terrain/trees. It was a good thing I had antiquated backup.
"If you want to be a bad a$s, then do what a bad a$s does. There's your pep talk for today. Go Run." -- Slo_Hand
I am spaniel - Crusher of Treadmills
I can't see holding off for a better running watch (that might be years off) than what exists now. The good GPS watches on the market perform incredibly well for their purpose and are trivially inexpensive in the grand scheme of things. Odds are you'll have gotten your money's worth and then some and worn out whatever watch you buy now, by the time this next gen tech makes its way to running watches. And this .02 is from a guy who for the longest time didn't see the need for a GPS watch at all.
I was going to post the exact same thing. I love my GPS and considering it is a relatively inexpensive tool I use every, single day I would not hesitate in buying a new GPS watch right now. Matter of fact, though I've been a big advocate of buying the now-inexpensive 310XT I just bought a FR220. Man, I can't believe how much of a fan I am now of being able to wear this as a normal everyday watch. I recently lost my 205 but this one is just going to live on my wrist full-time. I never have to worry about 'did I forget to throw my watch in my running bag this morning?' anymore. Just get the watch and move on with your running life.
Except that they are still talking about launching the satellites necessary. The new constellation of satellites is not in orbit, so I think it's going to be a lot longer than a year. IMHO if you bought a device today it'll be about worn out by the time the new satellites are operational and the civilian device market has caught up. Perhaps Joe can prove me wrong. I would love GPS that can handle trees better. I had a rather unpleasant experience during spring turkey season due to losing GPS in some rough terrain/trees. It was a good thing I had antiquated backup.
I would never try to prove you wrong! (Unless you were wrong, of course). Actually your response is about exactly what I was going to say. Getting the constellation up is one thing, but then there is also developing all the consumer electronics technology down here that would be required to take advantage of it, and then getting it into products. Definitely don't wait for this in the hopes that a new super -GPS running watch is imminent. It will take some time.
This is maybe going to get OT. I run mostly on the road, so tree cover is usually not an issue, but the improvement I would like to see is quicker locating of satellites. No idea if this is related to the satellites themselves, or the technology in the device. Are some watches better than others? I have the 210, it's not too bad, but some days it takes longer than others. Usually seems to be slowest on the most miserably cold days, so I can stand outside shivering for what seems like an eternity, staring at my wrist like an idiot.
Also, someone mentioned being able to wear their GPS watch like a regular watch - that was one of my reasons for picking the 210, but as it turns out I don't. I don't generally wear a watch anyway, having this doesn't change that. And although not too bulky, still a tight squeeze under the cuff of a dress shirt. Anyway I usually remember to bring it with me when I am going to need it. This winter the challenge has been keeping it charged, since I have been going for long stretches of treadmill-only....
Dave
Well, I SAY new devices will be worn out by then, but if they are like my ancient Forerunner 201 I hope it isn't true. I can't change the mode (button non-functional) and therefore I can't delete the cache to allow me to record splits anymore, but it's still functional as an odometer. I think I bought the dang thing in 2003 or early 2004. Longest lived electronic device I think I've ever owned.
I guess I could take it back to REI and return it.
....but the improvement I would like to see is quicker locating of satellites. No idea if this is related to the satellites themselves, or the technology in the device. Are some watches better than others? I have the 210, it's not too bad, but some days it takes longer than others...
While I agree that the FR 210 seems to be worse than previous models in getting all the sats acquired (NO! little FR 210 sitting on the top of my pickup while I tie my shoes -- you are not indoors for cripes sake! ) ...on the other hand, I look at thing in wonder and sheer amazement each time it happens -- just consider what it has to do: receive faint signals from freakin' outer space; select the 5 or so strongest; triangulate the time differences; account for signal shift and Doppler effect; deal with signals multi-pathing off nearby walls, cars or whatever; deal with us impatiently moving the thing while hopping up and down....it's unbelievable.
I think I bought the dang thing in 2003 or early 2004. Longest lived electronic device I think I've ever owned that has ever existed in the history of electronic devices.
FYP.
I just ordered a 310XT this weekend.
I would have gone for the smaller and sleaker but I need the 20 hour battery life and the ability to switch easily between biking and running. And lets be honest...the nice large font.
I had a 205 that died over two years ago and I never replaced it. I felt like I was a slave to the damn thing. Now I'm feeling like I am a slave to my courses not wanting to venture off of them since I know all the mileages and markers I've used for splits.