Forums >Racing>Using a marathon as a long run...?
So I am entered in the Richmond marathon (11/15) with grand plans for a PR and a BQ (sub-3:30). I ran a half in 1:39 a couple of weeks ago, so I am on track. I've got one more long run to do and I'm sort of looking around for a race to enter because...well, I am tired of running alone. I just did a 20miler yesterday by myself and, while it went really well, it was SO boring!
Anyways, the MCM is next weekend (10/25) and I'm sure I could find a bib. Running a full 26.2 will likely blow my goal race, won't it? Or will I be ok if I treat is as an actual long run and stay within my LR pace (GMP + 60-70sec)? Has anyone tried this with good results? Terrible ones?
Thoughts? It's ok if you tell me this is a stupid idea...
Feeling the growl again
It's a stupid idea.
Well, you asked.
But seriously, looking at your mileage and your pace that run will not do anything positive for your goal race. I too hate knocking out long solo runs, but it's part of the game. Or can you go out of your way to find someone to run with just this one time, even if you have to travel a bit?
"If you want to be a bad a$s, then do what a bad a$s does. There's your pep talk for today. Go Run." -- Slo_Hand
I am spaniel - Crusher of Treadmills
It can be a great idea. I use marathons as long runs all the time. As you say, doing 20+ solo is really boring. And the course support and just being part of an event can give you a big boost, and make the workout that much easier. (For the same reason, when I have to do a long MP run, I usually try to find a half and pad it with easy miles. Running a half at MP feels like cheating, whereas doing a 13-mile MP workout is a killer.)
I ran a marathon two weeks before my first sub-3. But I made sure to run it EASY, ~3:30, which, yeah, I guess is something like GMP + 70sec.
Question is, have you run marathons close together before? How well do you recover? This isn't really the time to experiment.
Also - the previous two posters are much better qualified than I am to analyze your training (although that was not your question), but I truly hope you have better success turning a 1:39 HM into a 3:30 marathon than I did. I ran a HM 6 weeks ago with exactly the same finish time as yours, and today just ran a 3:40. The McMillan calculator is an asshole.
Dave
Maybe I'm just a glutton for punishment, but I actually prefer to do my long runs alone as part of mental training to handle the boredom of running the full distance. In some of the smaller marathons you're likely running along for good chunks of time and you better be able to handle mentally. But, that's just me.
It can be a great idea. I use marathons as long runs all the time. As you say, doing 20+ solo is really boring. And the course support and just being part of an event can give you a big boost, and make the workout that much easier. (For the same reason, when I have to do a long MP run, I usually try to find a half and pad it with easy miles. Running a half at MP feels like cheating, whereas doing a 13-mile MP workout is a killer.) I ran a marathon two weeks before my first sub-3. But I made sure to run it EASY, ~3:30, which, yeah, I guess is something like GMP + 70sec. Question is, have you run marathons close together before? How well do you recover? This isn't really the time to experiment.
Context is important. Bhearn is an accomplished ultra runner doing 100-mile races. If this is your first time doing such a thing, I'd advise against it even if it works for bhearn. My PR is about 30 minutes faster than bhearn but if I did what he did I'd blow my race. People are different.
Agreed, though I wasn't running 100 milers when I ran a marathon two weeks out from my sub-3 in 2009. But I was accustomed to running marathons as training runs. If you are not, this is not the time to start.
The way to build up to that is to do one a few weeks *after* your goal marathon. Get a little more bang from that training buck.
Kalsarikännit
The majority of my marathons have been used as training runs (for ultras). I will say that in hindsight it has screwed me up more than it has helped. It is very hard to stay disciplined and run at an appropriate pace in a race environment. The energy of the race causes a fast start (where I find myself repeating "slow down, dumbass") or if you run at the desired pace there is a bunch of energy left towards the end where there are people just begging to be picked off. It is easy to say that you will run the whole race easy, putting it to practice is another thing.
I want to do it because I want to do it. -Amelia Earhart
I think WrigleyGirl nailed it.
Doing 26 miles 3-4 weeks out from your goal race probably isn't a bad idea. After all, you probably had a 22 scheduled anyways?
The problem is that in the excitement of an organized race it might be very difficult to run it at "long run" pace which might be MP+90?
If you think you are disciplined enough to do that it might be okay? But these other guys know much more than me.
2018 Goals
Figure out the achilles thing...... and THEN try to get running regularly again.
No racing goals
I ran a hilly 3:38 marathon as preparation for Boston, 13 weeks later. I ran 3:27 in Boston and felt prepared to tackle the hills. As long as you are the type of runner who can recover quickly from a hard effort, you should be ok.
PRs: Boston Marathon, 3:27, April 15th 2013
Cornwall Half-Marathon, 1:35, April 27th 2013
18 marathons, 18 BQs since 2010
runktrun
This ^ If you had to work for that 1:39, then I would advise against using a marathon as a pre-marathon long run; you are not quite at the level of fitness that would all but guarantee you a 3:30. If that 1:39 came very easily, then a pre-marathon marathon MAY be beneficial, but realize that you MUST take the time to recover properly. 26.2 beats you up waaay more than 22. There are diminishing marginal returns with long runs longer than 22, for most people. If you run the first marathon way slower than your 3:30 goal race pace, then you are spending significantly more time pounding your legs than you have been, or than you will later to run your 3:30. If you have popped out a number of 20-22 milers and continue to feel fresh, then consider trying it. For example, my PR is 2:58, off of maybe a dozen 20milers with 4-8 miles of that AT my goal marathon pace of 6:45 (raced 6:49s). After that, I ran a 3:30 marathon as a training run for an upcoming 50 miler and didn't break a sweat, literally. Not to brag, but to point out the difference in fitness and level of effort. So, to echo what everyone else is pretty much saying: the situation is unique and different for everyone; you need to know your strengths and weaknesses and how you will recover after the proposed training run. Good luck and happy trails!
Not running for my health, but in spite of it.
TAfter that, I ran a 3:30 marathon as a training run for an upcoming 50 miler and didn't break a sweat, literally.
Really? Where was this marathon? Maybe I just sweat a lot, but I'm at least slightly glazed like a mile into my easy runs.
Ha! I sweat up a storm!
I have been known to lose 3-4 pounds during a 45 minute run at MP + 2:00!!!
Ha, really. It was the now defunct Bob Potts rail trail marathon in York, PA in mid-May. I believe it had a 7:00 start time, and it still felt like high-40s/low-50s by the time I finished. I did not cross the line with my friend, who I was pacing to a BQ, but pretty much ran 3:32x for 26.1mi. I may have had a bit of cleavage sweat (distance runner...what cleavage?), but 8:00 pace was not enough to tip me into a zone of any serious exertion for me. Now, just a few seconds per mile faster mighta done it. Normally I lose 2-5lbs of water weight on nearly all runs over 4miles...