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Speed Workouts (Read 1663 times)

RunFree7


Run like a kid again!

    Okay I know I am going to be doing this wrong but I am hoping someone can tell me why it is wrong. I am going to start doing speed workouts on Wednesdays. My plan is to run an easy 1 mile on a treadmill 8:30 pace and then kick it up to 7:30 pace (my goal pace) for 3 miles and then back to an easy pace maybe 9:00 for the last mile. As the 7:30 starts to seem easier then I will start to increase my miles to 4 etc. My hope is that when I am running outside that at some point 7:30 will be my easy pace and all I have to worry about is maintaining that effort. Would it be better to increase my speed or my miles? I am not a big believer in the intervals thing because I am not going to be starting and stoping during a race. At least I hope not. The goal is to run a race at a certain pace right. Well who cares if I can run a pace off and on. I need to be fit enough that I talk at a 7:30 pace so that my cardio system can handle it and then get my legs need to learn to train at that pace. This would probably get me in my 80%-95% HR range building off my previous topic. I did this a while back in January and February running at a 7:30 pace and increasing the miles. I got up to 8 miles. After that the treadmills would not go any longer because of the hour time limit. It started to get easier and then being who I am I started to see how fast I could go on those things. I was surprised to see that the treadmill actually went above 10.1. However, I could not do that very long, and the whole thing was sort of shacking while I was doing it. I thought it was helping but I think I then started trying to run at that speed all of the time and was doing too many speed workouts. Actually I think they all turned into speed workouts Sad My legs would be really sore some days and I would still try to do it and could not. Looking back I was just being stupid but still like the idea just not so many. So this leads me to my one a week idea. Okay I am now open to how stupid an idea this is. Please feel free to hammer me on this one. I really want to improve and need some advice in this area. Do you guys/gals do your speed training inside on a treadmill or do you do it outside on a track or on a course? Any info is greatly appreciated. With it getting hotter I am thinking treadmill for speed workouts and outside for all other runs.
      2011 Goals:
      Sub 19 5K (19:24 5K July 14th 2010)
      Marathon under 3:05:59 BQ (3:11:10 Indy 2010)
    Scout7


    CPT Curmudgeon

      Your idea isn't stupid. It's called a tempo run. My question at this point is what are you training for? A specific race, specific distance, or just to run and see how fast you can get? Any answer is a good one, except for maybe "I don't know". As for the intervals, while you may not be starting and stopping during a race, you shouldn't be starting and stopping during intervals either. There is a recovery period, but it should be at least a jog or, depending on what you're doing, faster. Also, intervals train specific systems that you can't really stress otherwise. So they do have a place, and they work if done properly. All that being said, you don't have to do intervals. You don't have to do tempo runs. You could go out and just run, and see where that takes you, too. You will get faster, and you will be able to maintain that speed over increasing distances. Might take longer, though. Some people believe in doing tempo runs year-round, others don't. I'd say if you've done it before, your body can handle it, then go for it.
        Put your race time(s) into this calculator to get some idea of what your training paces should be. Running all your training runs at goal pace is a bad idea but one or two faster runs a week should help you to improve. I would still say miles over speed first though. http://www.mcmillanrunning.com/Running%20University/Article%201/mcmillanrunningcalculator.htm

        2013

        3000 miles

        Sub 19:00 for 5K  05-03-13 Clee Prom 5K - 19:00:66 that was bloody close!

        Sub-40:00 for 10K 17-03-13 Gainsborough 10K - 39:43

        Sub 88:00 for HM

         

          Okay I agree with what Scout and Chris have already said and I don't see anything wrong with doing one or two tempo runs a week--if your goal race is half marathon or longer you probably don't need to really do any other workouts besides those. But you did ask us to hammer you, so I will oblige. That's what I do.
          I am not a big believer in the intervals thing because I am not going to be starting and stopping during a race. At least I hope not. The goal is to run a race at a certain pace right. Well who cares if I can run a pace off and on. I need to be fit enough that I talk at a 7:30 pace so that my cardio system can handle it and then get my legs need to learn to train at that pace. This would probably get me in my 80%-95% HR range building off my previous topic.
          What? First of all, training is not simply practice for racing. It's training. You're trying to make changes in your body to improve its ability to run fast and long. Sometimes these changes are best made a little bit at a time--that is to say your body can only respond positively to so much stimulus at once, or it will break down. Intervals--which as Scout pointed out generally do not involve starting and stopping but changing paces to allow for recovery--let you do more running at a fast pace in one workout than you could do all at once, while also requiring less recovery after the fact. You don't have to do intervals--there is no rule that I'm aware of--but if you decide to, then the distance of the race you are training for, along with your running history, competitive temperament, likes and dislikes should help you determine the length and pace of your intervals and recovery jogs. So if your goal race is the marathon, you are unlikely to see much benefit from 10 x 200 meters at mile race pace with full recoveries. But you might see significant benefits from 3 x 3000 meters at half marathon pace with short recoveries. As for the heart rate mumbo jumbo, are you training to be a racer or a lab rat? How was that? Smile

          Runners run.

          RunFree7


          Run like a kid again!

            My end goal is to run at a 7:30 pace to qualify for Boston! My short term goal is to run a 5K under 23 minutes which would be under a 7:30 pace. Then I would like to run a 10K or 15K at that pace. I would like to run the Columbus Marathon in October at an 8:30 pace or better. My main goal in that one is just to finish strong!
              2011 Goals:
              Sub 19 5K (19:24 5K July 14th 2010)
              Marathon under 3:05:59 BQ (3:11:10 Indy 2010)
            RunFree7


            Run like a kid again!

              According to McMillian this is what I should be doing: Steady-State Runs 8:01 to 8:15 4:59 to 5:08 Tempo Runs 7:41 to 8:01 4:47 to 4:59 Tempo Intervals 7:35 to 7:51 4:43 to 4:52 I think it is wrong though. I can run tempo runs faster then that. Isn't the whole idea to push your body once a week as hard as you can with those? Since I won't be doing intervals this is my one chance.
                2011 Goals:
                Sub 19 5K (19:24 5K July 14th 2010)
                Marathon under 3:05:59 BQ (3:11:10 Indy 2010)
                No the idea of a tempo run is NOT to push yourself as hard as you can, that would be a RACE. The idea of a tempo run is to run "comfortably hard" for 20-40 minutes at a time, to increase your stamina. It should be the top end of your aerobic range. Having said that, the McMillan calculator is unlikely to be to helpful for you right now since you don't have much of a base or racing history, so if 7:30 feels "comfortably hard" go with that.

                Runners run.

                Scout7


                CPT Curmudgeon

                  To provide my perspective: I'm working on a BQ as well. I need to run a 3:10, which is right around 7:15/mile. My "A" race is CIM on 02 December. Most of my running right now is around 8:00/mile (except for races). I haven't even started doing anything like tempo or interval runs. And I don't have any planned for another 12-15 weeks. I am currently running between 40-50 mpw right now, and will be topping at at around 80-85 mpw.
                    So, you want to run a fast marathon? Here's what to do. 1) Start running every day. Or as often as you can. Twice a day if you feel like it. 2) Run hard every third day or so. Do intervals if you like intervals. Run tempos if you like tempos. Keep yourself from overdoing it by making sure that the last part of your hard running is faster than the first part of your hard running. The last interval is always your fastest. The last mile of your tempo should be your fastest. Let this be your mantra: "Live to fight another day." 3) Run for over 2 hours every now and then. 4) Do some form work. Strides at the end of a run. Hill bounds. High knees. Butt kicks. Develop speed and coordination in your legs. 5) Get off the treadmill (if you can). It's causing you to obsess about numbers. Learn to listen to your body. Let your body tell you what pace to run, not your fantasies. 6) Don't try to run faster every day (twice a week is enough). Start trying to beat your mileage numbers every week. Or every month. Take a long-term view. You don't need to be comfortable at 7:30 pace tomorrow. Or next month. Work on running strong at your own level of fitness. 7) Running is simple. Keep it simple. Figure out how to enjoy it so you'll stay at it.
                    RunFree7


                    Run like a kid again!

                      By starting and stopping I mean faster and slower. The key I thought for running a marathon is having a consistent pace and even splits. I just think that I need to get my body used to running at such a fast pace, which it has some experience of, and then figuring out how to handle such a pace for a long distance. If I just run 7:30 for a 10-15 minutes here or there then my body will never be taxed enough to do it on race day right? For instance I ran the first half of the Flying Pig at an 8:05 and the pace did not seem that big of a deal to me but when I hit mile 22 I hit a wall. I think three things happened. One that was a faster pace then I planned (8:15 - 8:30). Two I didn't eat anything during the race. Three I never ran that far during training. During training a I ran 20 miles at a slower pace and did not feel anything like I did when I hit that wall. Hey if it takes me being a lab rat to qualify then sign me up but I don't want any of that poking and prying stuff going on. 80-85 miles a week. I don't think that will ever be me. Very impressive. What kind of mileage do you run on your days to do that?
                        2011 Goals:
                        Sub 19 5K (19:24 5K July 14th 2010)
                        Marathon under 3:05:59 BQ (3:11:10 Indy 2010)
                        There are too many incorrect assumptions in that last post to quibble with each one individually so I'll just suggest you re-read Jeff's post 6 or 7 times (or as many times at it takes) and forget everything else. That should get you started. And stop worrying about pace. Jeff ran a 2:50 to win a hilly somebitch marathon in his debut at the distance without ever running more than 13 miles in training. Then he followed that up with a 2:38 this spring in his 2nd marathon.

                        Runners run.

                          So, you want to run a fast marathon? Here's what to do. 1) Start running every day. Or as often as you can. Twice a day if you feel like it. 2) Run hard every third day or so. Do intervals if you like intervals. Run tempos if you like tempos. Keep yourself from overdoing it by making sure that the last part of your hard running is faster than the first part of your hard running. The last interval is always your fastest. The last mile of your tempo should be your fastest. Let this be your mantra: "Live to fight another day." 3) Run for over 2 hours every now and then. 4) Do some form work. Strides at the end of a run. Hill bounds. High knees. Butt kicks. Develop speed and coordination in your legs. 5) Get off the treadmill (if you can). It's causing you to obsess about numbers. Learn to listen to your body. Let your body tell you what pace to run, not your fantasies. 6) Don't try to run faster every day (twice a week is enough). Start trying to beat your mileage numbers every week. Or every month. Take a long-term view. You don't need to be comfortable at 7:30 pace tomorrow. Or next month. Work on running strong at your own level of fitness. 7) Running is simple. Keep it simple. Figure out how to enjoy it so you'll stay at it.
                          What he said. The distance your training for is different. A quick look of the following gives 3 actual interval runs with 3-5 minutes of recovery between - Daniels marathon plan A (MOPer'sl) 5 actual interval runs with 2-5 minutes of recovery between - daniels marathon plan B (FOPer's) That's for a 24 week plan. Even for daniels what he calls your Marathon pace (based off of current ability not pipe dreams (ie no BQ time for me) he recommends on longer run's slowly progressing to your MP. Lydiard's got something comparable. 8 sessions over a very long plan for not so experienced and I think 12 for experienced. Again you're looking at something over a 6 month period. What do they have in common though? A lot of sub LT / Tempo work mixed in with Easy mileage/time to get your body adapted to running long and running faster. They've also got a lot of easy miles put in too.
                          RunFree7


                          Run like a kid again!

                            First off, thanks to everyone who is responding to this cry for help. I think what Jeff wrote makes the most sense. I'm not a big believer in following the conventional methods. I like to take bits and pieces of things and come up with my own plan. Everyone is made up differently so why would we all follow the same pattern. With that said though I have a lot to learn still about what works for me and what does not. You guys/gals have given me a lot to think about. I am amazed at how much you guys sound the same sometimes but then sometimes sound differently at times. For instance the heart rate monitor thing. Time is the big downer about running longer. I have kids to pick up at night so I run and then pick them up. Only gives me an hour/hour and half to run. However on the weekend I could log more miles. Maybe when I get closer to the Marathon I will try this. For now my goal is between 40-50 a week - run 5 times a week. I will stay away from the treadmill but only because soon I will have my Garmin 305, which by the way has left Tenn and is some big truck. I hope the truck driver has it nice and tucked away safely so that none of the big boxes hurt my little box. So I will have my Garmin that will help me obsess about my pace. I know running should be fun but if I run 7 days a week it will seem like work to me so that is why I keep it to 5 days. Plus I want to spend some time with my little ones.
                              2011 Goals:
                              Sub 19 5K (19:24 5K July 14th 2010)
                              Marathon under 3:05:59 BQ (3:11:10 Indy 2010)
                              Time is the big downer about running longer. I have kids to pick up at night so I run and then pick them up. Only gives me an hour/hour and half to run. However on the weekend I could log more miles. Maybe when I get closer to the Marathon I will try this. For now my goal is between 40-50 a week - run 5 times a week.
                              Is that your goal milage for the height of your marathon training? or is that just the goal milage for now? The garmin will change your life, your runs, and man the freedom is incredible.
                                Bearcat, PLEASE, get a book and READ IT! Obtain some understanding FIRST, from some Professionals (Dr's, Coaches, Runners) before posting here agian. Just kidding WinkSorta. Save Face. "Know what I mean, Vern"

                                Ricky

                                —our ability to perform up to our physiological potential in a race is determined by whether or not we truly psychologically believe that what we are attempting is realistic. Anton Krupicka

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