Hanson's Marathon Project (Read 2119 times)

Venomized


Drink up moho's!!

     

     

    Now I have to go for a run Smile

     

     

    Same here, all I need to do is lace up and I will be out the door at this point.

      4 hours for a 22 miler = 5.5 miles per hour.  I would agree that running much over 3 hours for someone running 4 hour marathons does not have a lot of benefit and could be counter productive.  My 2.5-3 hours has always been < 30% of the time I spend training that week and lamost always under 25%.

       

      When I started running - Many of the runs were based on time and not distance, so I often think in terms of time. 

       

      Your question cannot be applied generically to everyone - In your case if you are spending 4-7 hours a week training and running under 40 MPW. 

       

      When I was training for my 1st marathon I was running 70-80 MPW in 9-12 hours of running, so 2.5-3.0 hours for a long run was a significantly different stressor.

       

      Now after 9 1/2 years of running and lots of miles.  Running 2.5-3.0 hours without making it a faster run or putting an interval speed workout into it does very little other than maintain aerobic fitness.  Runs of 4-8 hours however still provide a stimulous to building my aerobic engine.

       

      This is about the Hanson's Marathon Project - This is a very solid plan and great for many people - It does not fit my temperament.

       

      There is no magic in any numbers - It is just the accumulation of different kinds of training stress that you have to be able to recover from to benefit from and apply more training stress. 

       

      As Jeff pointed out you have to play to your strengths and minimize the impact of your weaknesses.  I do not know you or how long you have been running or your running history.  Would it be better to focus on building your aerobic capacity and stamina or will you get more out of working on running efficiency and speed acquisition?  If you are new to running both are very important, but usually people focus on building their aerobic capacity and then start adding speed.

       

      The only reason I posted was to agree with the statement of picking a plan that fits your temperament.

      Ann Audaine of New Zealand was nicknamed "the winningest road runner" back in early 1980s.  She was tested at Nike lab and they predicted she could run something like 2:23 for the marathon.  She was the gold medalist in 3000m at (I think) 1982 Commonwealth Games and they had high hopes for her winning the medal in the upcoming LA Olympics marathon even the gold medal.  Her coach then, John Davies, called Lorraine (Moller) and asked her about marathon training--John was Lorraine's first coach, however, Ann would be Lorraine's prime rival for making the NZ Olympic team along with then the world record holder, Alison Roe (she ran that marathon WR in the same NYC marathon where Salazar ran his WR and then taken away because the course was found to be short).  "Ann won't make a great marathon runner," Lorraine replied, "because she doesn't have the temperament."  

       

      As much as I'd like to promote Lydiard-like training cycle, a pyramid training plan; but this thing called "temperament" does exist.  That's why Australian coach, Pat Clohessy, created now known as "Complex Training" program for Deek because of his temperament.  

       

      That being said, that might be just fine if you are Ron Clarke but I do believe there's a certain training pattern, be it Lydiards or Hansons or Daniels or Pfitzs, that most of us would most likely benefit.  When we created Running Wizard, we followed certain principles (namely, Lydiard's) but we didn't necessarily follow "long run being XXX% of weekly mileage" thing simply because there are far too many people today who don't run every day or even 6-days-a-week.  We too followed the time-based training plan and, if we did that, some people may not even reach 10-mile as the longest run for a marathon preparation!!  

       

      This seems to be the most frequently asked question so far but the point is; we just don't buy into running too much at one time.  We capped it at 2:45 being the longest run--of course, if you want (if your temperament prefers), you may go a bit beyond and go around 3 hours but we just decided there's no magic to 3-hours...or 20-miles.  I remember a heated discussion about someone saying that it's got to go beyond 20-miles and some of us argued; "Why not 19?"  There's no magic at 20-miles or 3-hours.  Our physiology can't tell the difference between 19-miles and 21-miles.  But our legs can sure as hell tell the difference between 2-hour run and 4-hour run!  We felt that beyond 3 hours, there's way too much muscular trauma that may take far too long to recover from, hence, neglecting all the other aspects of over-all training program; some of which had been discussed here already.  Particularly, unfortunately, slower runners tend to land harder on their feet (heels) which unfortunately tends to escalate the degree of muscle break-down.  

       

      As seems to have been pointed out here, there are more to training program than just a long run.  Perhaps more efficient way to increase the distance covered within the workout called "Long Run" maybe is to learn to run faster so you'll be covering more distance within the same given duration of time.  I'm sort of convinced that, if you can run 12-miles (non-stop), then you can manage to survive 26 miles.  It may be a bit of a stretch but, hey, let's face it, running 6-7 hours to run the marathon is a bit of a stretch to begin with.  Then it would become a question of; whether you'll go into the marathon with dead legs or fresh legs.  

      onemile


        I added the plan to my RA.  If anyone else wants to save time entering it, here's the link:

         

        http://www.runningahead.com/logs/db670d77527a4bcfb0f003c1a980d6da/plans/d51e8ffbcdee4abeadc56eca32ad9b04

         

        (hope this works).

          It didn't work for me.

           

          I think you have to make your training log public for others to view your plan.

          Age: 46 Weight: 205 Height: 6'2" (Goal weight 195)

          Current PR's:  Mara 3:48:09; HM 1:43:26; 10K 43:59; 5K 21:27

          onemile


            Oh that stinks. I have the training plan set for public but I didn't really want my whole log to be public. Blush

              Not sure.  All I know is that I get a 404 when I click on the link.

               

              MTA - having your log public really is a good thing.  Regular posters will be able to give much better advice if they can see your log.  There are some VERY knowledgeable folks who post here and give VERY good advice if you let them and listen to them.

              Age: 46 Weight: 205 Height: 6'2" (Goal weight 195)

              Current PR's:  Mara 3:48:09; HM 1:43:26; 10K 43:59; 5K 21:27

              onemile


                Ok, I unlocked my log. Can you see it now?

                Venomized


                Drink up moho's!!

                  Can see it now

                    I used the hanson marathon training plan for my last marathon (Baystate 2010).

                     

                    I ran a PR by about 7 minutes, but probably could have gone faster if I hadnt overexceeded myself early on.  I had been shooting for a 3:20 so i went out at the 7:40 pace and held that for I think about 16 miles (coincidence?) at which point my legs got pretty heavy and my pace dropped.  I actually still felt pretty good I just couldnt get the turnover going any more.  I finished in 3:37, but honestly if I hadn't tried for such a lofty goal and had maybe just tried to hold 8:00 pace I think I might ahve been able to do that.  My PR before that was 3;43 and I knew that trying to drop 20+ minutes was a hefty goal, but I figured "Go Big or Go Home" and I was still happy with the race.

                     

                    As far as the training went, I actually never felt more prepared for a marathon than after that training cycle.  In all other marathons when I hit the wall, I hit the wall hard - not able to run, walking a lot, stopping and resting and pretendign to stretch.  This time I didnt have to walk, I just slowed down.

                     

                    I really liked the plan and would probably use it again, and may use something similar next year when I do a marathon (I hope)

                     

                    I did a blog about my experience as I was doing it - wasnt great about posting frequently but it might give you an idea of what it was like

                     

                    <cite>hansontraining.blogspot.com/</cite>

                      Ok, I unlocked my log. Can you see it now?

                       

                      Yep.

                       

                      Interesting. The advance plan has the MP tempo run going up to a full 16 miles? The one I was copying off of the runnersworld article only got the MP tempo run up to 10 miles.

                       

                      I was curious what the interval workouts were going to show as well. They are pretty generic in the article. Are you just not showing the warm up and cool down parts of the interval workouts? The example that I saw was a 9 miler including warm up and cool down and I think that was for the intermediate plan. On yours you are showing 7 mile intervals each week.

                      Age: 46 Weight: 205 Height: 6'2" (Goal weight 195)

                      Current PR's:  Mara 3:48:09; HM 1:43:26; 10K 43:59; 5K 21:27


                      Bad Ass

                        I used the hanson marathon training plan for my last marathon (Baystate 2010).

                         

                        I ran a PR by about 7 minutes, but probably could have gone faster if I hadnt overexceeded myself early on.  I had been shooting for a 3:20 so i went out at the 7:40 pace and held that for I think about 16 miles (coincidence?) at which point my legs got pretty heavy and my pace dropped.  I actually still felt pretty good I just couldnt get the turnover going any more.  I finished in 3:37, but honestly if I hadn't tried for such a lofty goal and had maybe just tried to hold 8:00 pace I think I might ahve been able to do that.  My PR before that was 3;43 and I knew that trying to drop 20+ minutes was a hefty goal, but I figured "Go Big or Go Home" and I was still happy with the race.

                         

                        As far as the training went, I actually never felt more prepared for a marathon than after that training cycle.  In all other marathons when I hit the wall, I hit the wall hard - not able to run, walking a lot, stopping and resting and pretendign to stretch.  This time I didnt have to walk, I just slowed down.

                         

                        I really liked the plan and would probably use it again, and may use something similar next year when I do a marathon (I hope)

                         

                        I did a blog about my experience as I was doing it - wasnt great about posting frequently but it might give you an idea of what it was like

                         

                         

                         

                        Thanks.  This really helps.

                        Damaris, Marathon Maniac, Ultra Runner

                        Blog

                        "The most powerful weapon on earth is the human soul on fire."

                        onemile


                          The plan is the Advanced plan from the book and they say to add 1.5 to 3 miles WU/CD to each workout, which is what I did.  So the 16 tempo has a 3 WU/ 3CD and then 10 miles at tempo pace (which is GMP).  If you hover over it, it should indicate the amount of tempo miles.  The Tuesday workouts are also copied from the book - the first half are done at 5k pace and the second half are MP - 10 seconds.  I just put them all at 7 miles including the wu/cd but I think of of them may end up being longer once you get to the strength portion.

                            The plan is the Advanced plan from the book and they say to add 1.5 to 3 miles WU/CD to each workout, which is what I did.  So the 16 tempo has a 3 WU/ 3CD and then 10 miles at tempo pace (which is GMP).  If you hover over it, it should indicate the amount of tempo miles.  The Tuesday workouts are also copied from the book - the first half are done at 5k pace and the second half are MP - 10 seconds.  I just put them all at 7 miles including the wu/cd but I think of of them may end up being longer once you get to the strength portion.

                             

                            I think most of those strength interval workouts are going to end up closer to 9 miles if you have a 1 mile WU/CD with them.

                             

                            I didn't realize the MP tempo runs were 10 miles plus WU/CD.  I thought they included the WU/CD and the actual tempo part was only 8 miles. 

                             

                            Thanks for the clarification. 

                            Age: 46 Weight: 205 Height: 6'2" (Goal weight 195)

                            Current PR's:  Mara 3:48:09; HM 1:43:26; 10K 43:59; 5K 21:27

                            onemile


                              I think most of those strength interval workouts are going to end up closer to 9 miles if you have a 1 mile WU/CD with them.

                               

                              I didn't realize the MP tempo runs were 10 miles plus WU/CD.  I thought they included the WU/CD and the actual tempo part was only 8 miles. 

                               

                              Thanks for the clarification. 

                               

                              No prob - the book said that they estimate 1.5 wu/cd when they give the weekly mileage but you can do up to 3WU/3CD if you want.  I'll adjust the length of the strength workouts on my plan.

                               

                              I'd really recommend buying the book - lots of good info in there beyond what you get with the free plan online.

                               

                               

                              ETA:  I updated the strength runs to 10 miles ( because I like at least 2 miles for the WU).  I'm starting to get a little scared.

                              mucknort


                                I've used the free Hanson plan to train for 2 marathons. It works great for me. The first one I stayed close to the beginner miles, second one I stuck to the advanced miles. I now LOVE and am addicted to running 6 days a week, even when not training for a marathon. One main reason I was drawn to the plan was running more days, but never running over 16 miles. Works for me.