1

Heart rate question (Read 299 times)

ander35


    I am starting running and I have a heart rate monitor from polar. My target is about 85% of my max which works out top be about 152 beats per minute.

     

    The problem is I get up to 150 bpm after only jogging for like 3 minutes, then I walk for 3 or 4 minutes and then jog again.

     

    I am 42, quit smoking two months ago after smoking for 23 years so.

     

    I assume it will get so that I can run for a while before hitting my max?

      Personally, I'd stuff that heart rate monitor into a drawer and leave it there until you are so good at running you're challenging the elite runners in the 40-49 year old age group.  Why?  For starters, the formulas for figuring out your max heart rate are seriously-SERIOUSLY flawed; just let your body do what it does naturally (and learn to listen to what it is telling you), and you'll progress very well.

      cookiemonster


      Connoisseur of Cookies

        Congratulations on quitting cigarettes!  Keep up the good work.

         

        I'll also suggest not using the heart rate monitor right now.  There are other things to focus on as a new runner without being distracted by heart rate numbers that may or may not actually mean anything.  There are many variables that come into play regarding calculating your max heart rate and determining what you need to maintain.

         

        Just run.  Enjoy it.  Listen to your body.  Learn to listen to what your body is telling you.  Learn what's good.  Learn what isn't good.  Go from there.

         

        Then, down the road, you may reach the point where a HRM will prove helpful.  Pull it out and go for it.

        ***************************************************************************************

         

        "C" is for cookie.  That's good enough for me.

          1. Congratulations on quitting smoking.

           

          2. Sounds like you used an age-based formula which can be notoriously off for any individual. You'll need a field or lab test to estimate your actual HRmax. Mark Rice's page on heart rate training is one of the better pages for discussions of issues with HRM. While I spent a fair amount of time trying to estimate HRmax in an indirect way (definitely not a HRmax test) and it works well for me, I've realized that most training is aerobic. Most "anaerobic" training is of such short duration that HRMs don't respond fast enough, so most books that I've read recommend not using them for those intensities. Which then begs the question, why do I need a HRmax? (there's other approaches)

           

          3. You might consider just using a talk test to estimate what zone / effort you're in. You can still use HRM to document your run. In your easiest runs, try to recite Pledge of Allegiance or first line of Gettysburg Address (both are about 30 words). You might not be able to do this as a beginner, but you can use that as a goal (unless you have something else in mind). What they call LT effort or 1-hr race effort might be being able to talk in phrases a few words in length. And then there's everything in between.

           

          I *do* wear a HRM on all my runs (since early 2001), but can usually tell within a few bpm or less what my HR is without looking. It's there for documentation, and I've learned a lot from looking at the graphs of HR vs hills vs position on course (technical trail) - AFTER the run. This time of year between layers of long sleeves and darkness, I only look at watch for time (like when it's time to turnaround and head home). Most of my running is on hilly trails or snow-covered whatever, so HR and duration is the best readily-available number for me to keep track of training load.

           

          Like the others said, unless you're a numbers geek who really wants to take the time to learn how to use a HRM and understand its idiosyncrasies, you may be better off just running or using talk test.

           

          Oh, and 85% HRmax is pretty high for an easy run. That's getting up toward the high end of aerobic efforts. HOWEVER, since you're new to running, that might be all the easier you can run. I used to swear that 80% of my HRmax was the easiest I could run - until I ran more and also got off the roads and onto trails (high levels of road traffic next to me were creating a stress that forced higher effort).

          "So many people get stuck in the routine of life that their dreams waste away. This is about living the dream." - Cave Dog
          jimmyb


            Heart rate monitors are a great tool for beginners. It can help you to keep from overdoing it and going down the path many beginners go: quitting and getting injured, not necessarily in that order. It can also take the guesswork out of when to go faster in training.  If you use a heart rate monitor and run your aerobic runs  at 70% MHR, if you train properly, you might start out running 13:00 miles, and in 6 months be running 11:00 miles at the same HR--that's improvement. And you never had to make a guess as to when you should go faster, your body decides.  Generally what happen to many beginners is that you'll have to walk some to keep your HR low enough. If you can't keep your HR under 152 right now without walking, consider that maybe you're not fully ready for running all the time. The  run/walk/run/walk method works fine,  even just walking will build your aerobic engine. Check out the Low-HR training forum here on RA for some more information on training with a heart rate monitor. Congrats on starting out. Good luck! 

            Log    PRs

            pedaling fool


              I am starting running and I have a heart rate monitor from polar. My target is about 85% of my max which works out top be about 152 beats per minute.

               

              The problem is I get up to 150 bpm after only jogging for like 3 minutes, then I walk for 3 or 4 minutes and then jog again.

               

              I am 42, quit smoking two months ago after smoking for 23 years so.

               

              I assume it will get so that I can run for a while before hitting my max?

               

              I also have a polar HR monitor, but I don't use it for training, just a fun thing to look at. According to all the diffent formulae out there my max HR  is anywhere between 170-176 (49 y/o male) and my 85% training zone is about 142 - 154 (depending on what calculator you use). The problem is that when I run I'm normally at 155 and I can easily get up to 165 and still not feel too bad. I haven't checked my max HR in a while, but I have seen 195 on there before, way above what it should be.

               

              The reason why is because the HR forumla was never intended to be standard, and all the other formlae I've seen are not much better.  This will open your eyes to the history of HR issue  http://www.nytimes.com/2001/04/24/health/maximum-heart-rate-theory-is-challenged.html?pagewanted=all&src=pm

               

               

              Another factor and one thing that makes tracking your HR fun is that my avg HR when running is usually about the same as when I first started running, it's just comfortable for me, but what has changed is my pace, meaning I'm faster, faster with the same HR. So not only does HR change from person to person, but you yourself don't have an optimum HR that's set in stone, rather it's dependent on your conditioning, as well as other factors, such as overtraining, illness....

                I am starting running and I have a heart rate monitor from polar. My target is about 85% of my max which works out top be about 152 beats per minute.

                 

                The problem is I get up to 150 bpm after only jogging for like 3 minutes, then I walk for 3 or 4 minutes and then jog again.

                 

                I am 42, quit smoking two months ago after smoking for 23 years so.

                 

                I assume it will get so that I can run for a while before hitting my max?

                 

                Congratulations on quitting smoking.  That's a huge accomplishment and jogging / running is a great replacement and is quite addictive.

                I'm a heart rate guy, but...  Don't worry about the heart rate and that formula.  You have 23 years of lung issues that'll take need to be worked out, and it'll take time to clear them out.  Some day, your lung capacity will increase beyond what it is today.  You'll need to be patient over these next few months.

                 

                I started running in about 1999 after similar self-abuse to my lungs.  I did a run-walk strategy for the first few months and eventually was able to run 6+ miles straight.  I didn't wear a heart rate monitor, but during those months, I never pushed my heart rate ceiling.  Those miles were slow and easy as I was building my leg muscles, my lungs, and my heart health.  I didn't ever get injured.

                 

                As JimmyB mentioned, a big risk for a new runner is doing stuff that leads to injury and 'retirement'.  Your goal could be to retire from running in 30 years (or more), and to help you toward that retirement, you should go easy early and maintain that easy effort as you build yourself from your current condition.

                 

                I spent the first few years logging miles without any purpose other than to be healthy and controlling my muscles, lungs, and heart.

                 

                Then, when I began racing in 2009, I was introduced to heart rate monitors, and it was very valuable to do the type of racing that I do (Ironman triathlon).

                Cheers,
                Brian

                2014 Goals:

                #1: Do what I can do. <DOING>

                #2: 365 Hours training <NOPE, INJURED>

                 

                Frenchfit


                  I guess you would be shocked to hear when I got into cycling and running 5 years ago my HR was maxing at 215 and cruising and kiting at 175-185.  I'm 61.  The HR Monitors are educational, but you will drive yourself nuts worrying about charts and zones.  Over time, and means few years in my case, your HR numbers will change across the board, and some of the changes will be dramatic.

                   

                  Just run, if you want to track this and that ( and you are having fun doing it) great.  Don't fret about the numbers early on.

                  sport jester


                  Biomimeticist

                    Nothing wrong with what you're doing in goal, I'd simply offer a different approach.

                     

                    The mistake you're making is simple; you're pushing your body in speed, hoping it figures out how to be efficient enough to maintain your pace. That's a recipe for disaster. In contrast, you're better off concentrating on building your running skills and efficiency, knowing that higher speed will be your natural outcome.

                     

                    Using a heart rate monitor is a vital training component, especially if you're like me and have a history of training race horses.

                     

                    Start here; I'm the Robert in this story, and the masking tape exercise is what I use to teach movement to all of my private and military clients.

                     

                    If you have access to a treadmill, then great. Start there. In training, its important to remember that incline is more important than speed to build the balance and walking skills to safely reach your running speed goals.  If no treadmill machine is available, then its better to walk with added weight loads, to build yourself to the running heart rate you need to race at your desired speed and pace.

                     

                    Because regardless to how fast you want to run, if you can't keep your heart rate at running speed while still walking, then you'll never run at that speed either.

                    Experts said the world is flat

                    Experts said that man would never fly

                    Experts said we'd never go to the moon

                     

                    Name me one of those "experts"...

                     

                    History never remembers the name of experts; just the innovators who had the guts to challenge and prove the "experts" wrong

                    Andy Greenhalgh


                      8

                      Andy Greenhalgh


                        t

                        Andy Greenhalgh


                          I am starting running and I have a heart rate monitor from polar. My target is about 85% of my max which works out top be about 152 beats per minute.

                           

                          The problem is I get up to 150 bpm after only jogging for like 3 minutes, then I walk for 3 or 4 minutes and then jog again.

                           

                          I am 42, quit smoking two months ago after smoking for 23 years so.

                           

                          I assume it will get so that I can run for a while before hitting my max?

                           

                          I think part of the problem is your maximum HR. I remember trying to work out my MHR by running all hell for leather, noting the HR and assuming this was about my maxium (200bpm). When I used a HRM regularly over a long period I noticed my maximum HR on my Garmin data after a long run reached 256bpm, 225 when doing interval running.

                           

                          Before I found out my MHR this way I used 200bpm as my maximum and when I tried to run at 75% of this maximum it was very hard to run THAT slow - now I know why. My MHR estimate was way out.

                           

                          If HR is something you want to monitor (ha, ha) - then get a garmin with HRM and study the HR data over a few weeks and see where it's at - when you do your long runs in the future (10mile and above) you might see your MHR increase and this will change your zones. I've never bothered about zones too much, I use HRM for measuring calorie burn mostly.

                           

                          Anyhow... good luck. And stay of the Fags!!! Smile

                           

                          Andy from

                          www.myrunningtips.com

                            There are 3 important themes in the replies you have received that are useful.

                             

                            1.  Your target HR or zone is meaningless unless you know your *real* HRmax.  There is a higher probability of the age-based formula you used being significantly wrong than there is with it being close to right.  Others have covered this, but it bears repeating.

                             

                            2.  HRM can be a tool to control your intensity as you learn to run (as others have pointed out), but only if you work out #1 first.

                             

                            3.  You are probably bright enough to have figured this out on your own already, but never listen to anything that sport jester says.  It's mostly nonsense anyway, but don't waste any energy trying to decode it.

                             

                            Good luck!

                            - Joe

                            all running goals are under review by the executive committee.

                            TaraC


                              Do you teach them to walk uphill on a treadmill?

                               

                               

                              Using a heart rate monitor is a vital training component, especially if you're like me and have a history of training race horses.

                                

                              Ready, go.

                               

                              jimmyb


                                The heart rate monitor is a great tool for a beginner.  Many beginners run too hard when they start out, which makes it more probable that you'll get injured, quit, and never come back to it.

                                 

                                The idea is that you want to keep yourself in a certain zone that keeps you easy for awhile, until you've built up an aerobic base. This might mean you'll need to walk/run for awhile, until you can run everything. But that's okay. You want to give your body a lot of time to adapt. You'll know you're progressing because you'll get faster at the same heart rate, whether walking or running. If you're not getting faster, then you're training needs adjusting. Sometimes that means less miles, sometimes it means more, sometimes it means you need speed work, sometimes it means you need total rest. It takes experimentation. Often your body will clue you in: if you're exhausted and sore, you need to reduce the time on your feet.  If you run by duration, your mileage will increase as you get fitter at the same HR.  Later on when your body has gotten used to running and you've built a solid aerobic system, you can add some speed work and very long runs. Research the different methods: Joe Friel, John L. Parker, MAF training (Maffetone Method). If you choose a method where max heart rate is important, it's easy to figure out a useable one by doing something akin to a stress test. You go out and warm-up for awhile and then run as hard as you can. You'll get a workable number from that. It most likely will be a little lower than what the MHR is, but erring on the low side is okay. It's always okay to run easy. There's an MAF-training  forum here on RA. Good luck! 

                                Log    PRs

                                1