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Hansons Method Interval Pace Question (Read 150 times)


The Irreverent Reverand

    Just finished my first full week of the Hansons Marathon Method, and I'm a little confused by the pace at which I should do the intervals (on Tuesdays, in their plans - Mondays in my scheme). Today I was trying to do the W2D2 workout (page 96).

    The pace chart on pages 82-83 (Hansons Marathon Method, by Luke Humphrey, 2012) shows 10K and 5K speed for various marathon goals. The chart on page 59 shows 400m pace charts for 5K and 10K goals. However, there is no chart that directly shows what pace at which I should run intervals assuming a certain marathon goal page.

     

    So, to know what speed at which I should be doing my intervals, do I take the 10K or 5K speed that matches up with my marathon goal pace on page 82-83, and then take that 10K/5K speed as a 10K/5K goal on page 59 to find my target 400m interval time?

     

    For example, if I'm training for a 3:20 marathon, page 83 shows my 10K speed as 7:00, 5K speed as 6:43. These speeds translate to a 10K time of 43:24 and a 5K time of 20:50.
    Then, turning to page 59 for 400m interval pace charts, a 5K goal of 21:00 has a 400 interval pace of 1:43, a 10K goal of 43:20 has a 400 interval pace of 1:40.

    Thus, if I'm shooting/training for a 3:20 marathon, do I run these 400s at 1:40? Or, am I reading the charts wrong?

     

    For what it is worth, I did this workout - 12x400s, target of 1:40 for each interval, with a 400m jog recovery after each - today, averaging about a 1:37 pace and I felt great. In fact, I felt I could have done more or I could have done it faster ... which makes me wonder if I set a wrong interval goal pace.

    Thanks for your advice.

    Husband. Father of three. Lutheran pastor. National Guardsman. Runner. Political junkie. Baseball fan.

     

    Goals for 2014:

    Sub-3:30 marathon; run for a year free from major injuries or interruptions

    PRs: 3:27 marathon; 1:41 half; 45:07 10K; 23:26 5K; 6:02 mile; <12 parsecs Kessel Run

    onemile


      Do them at your current 5k pace.

      Scooterscott


        Without the book to reference your your paces and charts I was looking at this from a much higher level.

         

        It appears that through your investigation you have found is the "range" of paces for intervals.  A simpler example of this is on the McMillian running calculator website.  If you enter a time, your interval workouts will have X:XX - Y:YY as the time.  I have checked paces against a number of different coaching theories and calculators and guess what, even though there are little variations they all work out to be pretty much the same.

         

        When you look at the range, factor in your goals and abilities.  For me, I came from a track background so I enjoy interval workouts over others so I always use the faster end of the range.  On other workouts I might try to use the slower end of the range because the workout stresses volume not specifically speed.  You know yourself and which of those paces will work for you.  It would be counterproductive to do a mile repeat workout and do them half of them faster per mile and then the other half slower than your range.  It woud be best to try and keep the pace thourghout the workout as close as possible to the first one.

          Short answer as I understand it, Tuesday Intervals are supposed to be your current 5k-10k pace range (no specific number), he recommends 10 k pace knowing that most people tend to run them faster anyway.

           

          I think a 400 m jog recovery is a bit too much (it takes me about 2:30-3:00 min to jog 400 m) which is why you could finish the  workout and not feel it, I'd aim for equal time recovery or 200 m whichever comes first.


          The Irreverent Reverand

            Short answer as I understand it, Tuesday Intervals are supposed to be your current 5k-10k pace range (no specific number), he recommends 10 k pace knowing that most people tend to run them faster anyway.

             

            I think a 400 m jog recovery is a bit too much (it takes me about 2:30-3:00 min to jog 400 m) which is why you could finish the  workout and not feel it, I'd aim for equal time recovery or 200 m whichever comes first.

             

            Thanks for the advice, all. I don't know my current 5K or 10K pace, as my most recent races of these distances were over a year ago. Perhaps I need to find more races, or just do a time trial for myself.

             

            As for the recovery, I ran most of then around 2:30. Happyfeet, I like your idea of cutting down the recovery.  I'll try that next week.

            Husband. Father of three. Lutheran pastor. National Guardsman. Runner. Political junkie. Baseball fan.

             

            Goals for 2014:

            Sub-3:30 marathon; run for a year free from major injuries or interruptions

            PRs: 3:27 marathon; 1:41 half; 45:07 10K; 23:26 5K; 6:02 mile; <12 parsecs Kessel Run


            The Irreverent Reverand

              Short answer as I understand it, Tuesday Intervals are supposed to be your current 5k-10k pace range (no specific number), he recommends 10 k pace knowing that most people tend to run them faster anyway.

               

              I think a 400 m jog recovery is a bit too much (it takes me about 2:30-3:00 min to jog 400 m) which is why you could finish the  workout and not feel it, I'd aim for equal time recovery or 200 m whichever comes first.

               

              Thinking about this a little more ... Part of the workout, too, is mileage, so I'm thinking that if I reduced the recovery distance I might add it on with a longer warm up or cool down.

               

              Thanks again, guys. This is all very helpful ... and is the first time that I'm taking training a little more seriously. Last time I ran a marathon - three years ago - I followed a plan I found in a Runners World mag. I'm now trying to understand the theory behind it all a little better. Thanks!

              Husband. Father of three. Lutheran pastor. National Guardsman. Runner. Political junkie. Baseball fan.

               

              Goals for 2014:

              Sub-3:30 marathon; run for a year free from major injuries or interruptions

              PRs: 3:27 marathon; 1:41 half; 45:07 10K; 23:26 5K; 6:02 mile; <12 parsecs Kessel Run

                Keep the recoveries at 400 meters; don't shorten them.  This part of the training is speed intervals and thus you do nearly a complete recovery between the intervals.  Especially this early in the training.  I did Hanson last year and just started it again.  Keep the faith, follow the plan. It's awful early in the training cycle to start trying to make the runs more difficult, you have 700 miles to go.

                 

                Good Luck!

                  I'll post  a table from the purchased Hansons (Luke Humphrey's) 20 week 60 - 80 week plan which shows training paces for each variety of training run.  I just have to figure out how to post/import an image here.

                   

                  Edited to try to add a chart:

                   

                      Runners run.

                        Thanks for the help!  I think I figured it out at the same time you posted it.

                         

                        So, according to the chart, if you want to target a 3:20 marathon, then your 5k training pace should be 6:43 and your 10k pace should be 7:00.  The Long Run should be at 8:18.  (I actually emailed Luke Humphrey for clarification as to which column to use for the long run and Easy Runs).  The Easy Runs would be at 8:38.  Not sure what to use the other Easy Aerobic column for, so I never use it.

                          I've never read the book but my interpretation is that there is a range of easy paces depending on how you're feeling etc.

                          Runners run.


                          I've got a fever...

                            Agree with the above -- select your goal based on your current 5k and/or 10k pace. It's better to select training paces based on what you actually can currently do (i.e. recent races) as opposed to your goal pace.  This point comes up a lot with McMillan's and Daniels'  VDOT, where you use current race results, not goal times to select training paces.

                             

                            The danger is that if you pick paces based on a goal time that you're not ready for, your training paces will be too fast and you'll be in over your head.

                             

                            MTA:  What mikey said about easy pace.  Listen to your body and let it dictate easy rather than worry about what the chart says.  That is, unless you're prone to running your easy runs too hard.

                            On your deathbed, you won't wish that you'd spent more time at the office.  But you will wish that you'd spent more time running.  Because if you had, you wouldn't be on your deathbed.

                              Easy days should be easy.  Think of them as recovery days.  1-2 minutes slower than goal marathon pace.  The only thing you can do wrong on those days is go too fast.

                                The nice about the Hansons' table I posted above is that one can try an aspirational goal pace.  But if one cannot maintain the accompanying Easy/Moderate/5k/10k/HM/M paces for the specific training runs for that goal pace then one has to adjust the goal pace.

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