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What next - Ultra (50mi) or lots of marathons? (Read 1414 times)


A Sweetheart

     

    For a flat 50M - Take marathon pace and add at least 1 minute per mile ~ 2 minutes per mile if you plan on regular walk breaks.

     

    You really cannot convert a technical trail ultra with lots of elevation gain / loss to a road marathon - I am usually pretty darn happy making 6 miles per hour on these kind of trails even when I could run 8 miles per hour on flat road for 50M.

     

    My first was over 11 hours.  Plus it was mostly flat-ish (JFK50).  It was ugly.  

     

    I have since sped up.  Thank God.

     

    No one is great their first time at anything.  Go out, see what you think about it, make lots of mistakes, then learn from them.  Next time you go out you have a better idea what you are getting yourself into.  

    I want to do it because I want to do it.  -Amelia Earhart

      you guys are talking about 'first time' as if I'll be silly enough to do it twice.  I get that it's going to be bad, I guess there's no way to describe just how bad, and in reality I probably don't want to know.  I read a training guide yesterday with back to back long runs (4-5 hours each) and he said that when you're at the point where you're crying through you're training run, it's nothing compared to how bad the race will be.  You both survived and did it again...right?

        Looking forward to my next 50 miler next month!

        Your toughness is made up of equal parts persistence and experience. You don't so much outrun your opponents as outlast and outsmart them, and the toughest opponent of all is the one inside your head." - Joe Henderson


        A Sweetheart

          he said that when you're at the point where you're crying through you're training run, it's nothing compared to how bad the race will be.  You both survived and did it again...right?

           

          Drama.  It isn't that bad.  Compared to the 50 mile race, training is much harder.  In the race you always have adrenaline, other runners around, you are fueling better, plus the volunteers at ultras are the best people you will ever meet.  They are funny and generous and make the races easier.  If you remember just to run aid station to aid station you will do ok.  The miles in the 30's are long and tedious.  You are in no-man's land.  You just have to push through them.  By the 40's you can smell the barn.  Getting out there and training on those bad days take guts.  Racing is the icing on the cake.

           

          100's are a thousand times worse than the training.  There is a lot of slow time at 3 am to ponder why you are such a f*^k-up that you need to destroy your mind and your body in such a ridiculous matter.  That's a whole different thread, though.

          I want to do it because I want to do it.  -Amelia Earhart

            Drama.  It isn't that bad.  Compared to the 50 mile race, training is much harder.  In the race you always have adrenaline, other runners around, you are fueling better, plus the volunteers at ultras are the best people you will ever meet.  They are funny and generous and make the races easier.  If you remember just to run aid station to aid station you will do ok.  The miles in the 30's are long and tedious.  You are in no-man's land.  You just have to push through them.  By the 40's you can smell the barn.  Getting out there and training on those bad days take guts.  Racing is the icing on the cake.

             

            100's are a thousand times worse than the training.  There is a lot of slow time at 3 am to ponder why you are such a f*^k-up that you need to destroy your mind and your body in such a ridiculous matter.  That's a whole different thread, though.

             +1,000

             

             my next 100 is in July *sigh*

            Your toughness is made up of equal parts persistence and experience. You don't so much outrun your opponents as outlast and outsmart them, and the toughest opponent of all is the one inside your head." - Joe Henderson

            DoppleBock


              Did I ever tell you that you kick ass! 

               

              Looking forward to my next 50 miler next month!

              http://a-big-horse.blogspot.com/ 

              2013 Goals ~ Mar < 3:00, 5M < 29, 10k < 35  

               

              DoppleBock


                Trust me - If you go into the race without the expectation of racing, but enjoying the experience - Keeping you effort leve low the 1st 25 miles and decide from mile#1 you are going to smile and enjoy the crap out of the race - You may never run another marathon and just do ultras! 

                 

                you guys are talking about 'first time' as if I'll be silly enough to do it twice.  I get that it's going to be bad, I guess there's no way to describe just how bad, and in reality I probably don't want to know.  I read a training guide yesterday with back to back long runs (4-5 hours each) and he said that when you're at the point where you're crying through you're training run, it's nothing compared to how bad the race will be.  You both survived and did it again...right?

                http://a-big-horse.blogspot.com/ 

                2013 Goals ~ Mar < 3:00, 5M < 29, 10k < 35  

                 

                Jeff F


                Free Beer

                  Thought I would throw in my 2 cents here.  I did my first 50M last June.  To prepare I did a trail marathon in March, a road marathon in April and another road marathon in May.  The only one I really raced was the April marathon and I ran a 3:47, which is about 20 minutes over my PR from a couple of years ago.  I did my 50M in a fixed time event (12 hours)  I ended up doing 51.1 miles in about 10.5 hours.  It was a very positive experience, thanks to WG and Buzzie who were there to provide mental support.  I found that from about marathon distance to 40 M my legs felt about the same as they do at the end of a marathon; it was at about 40 miles that things became tough.  I think part of it was I mentally shut down because I was realizing I was going to complete the goal of 50 M well before the 12 hours were up.  I actually walked my entire last loop which was a little over 3 miles.  I think anyone who has trained for a couple of marathons can go out and complete a 50M event, it all depends upon what your goal is with regard to how fast and how much you want to enjoy it.

                    Drama.  It isn't that bad.  Compared to the 50 mile race, training is much harder.  In the race you always have adrenaline, other runners around, you are fueling better, plus the volunteers at ultras are the best people you will ever meet.  They are funny and generous and make the races easier.  If you remember just to run aid station to aid station you will do ok.  The miles in the 30's are long and tedious.  You are in no-man's land.  You just have to push through them.  By the 40's you can smell the barn.  Getting out there and training on those bad days take guts.  Racing is the icing on the cake.

                     

                    100's are a thousand times worse than the training.  There is a lot of slow time at 3 am to ponder why you are such a f*^k-up that you need to destroy your mind and your body in such a ridiculous matter.  That's a whole different thread, though.

                     

                    This is an interesting way to look at it.  I only have the one 50 experience and would totally agree with the first paragraph.

                     

                    The second paragraph affirms my decision to never, ever, ever probably seek out a 100. 

                     

                      Did I ever tell you that you kick ass! 

                       No and Thanks DB!

                      Your toughness is made up of equal parts persistence and experience. You don't so much outrun your opponents as outlast and outsmart them, and the toughest opponent of all is the one inside your head." - Joe Henderson


                      hairshirt knitter

                        ... never, ever, ever probably ...

                         

                        I think that there encapsulates the entire group consciousness of runners :-)


                        Consistently Slow

                          you guys are talking about 'first time' as if I'll be silly enough to do it twice.  I get that it's going to be bad, I guess there's no way to describe just how bad, and in reality I probably don't want to know.  I read a training guide yesterday with back to back long runs (4-5 hours each) and he said that when you're at the point where you're crying through you're training run, it's nothing compared to how bad the race will be.  You both survived and did it again...right?

                           How bad? My 40 miler took 11:02:00. I hit the wall the mile 8. Can not even remember how many times I got off course. 12 hour race 3/10/12 Yes! Cool .DW "So sad". 100 in 2012.

                          Run until the trail runs out.

                          2013***1500 miles

                          50 miler

                          Race Less Train More

                           

                          Ana Trason  "Living Her Life"

                          "The Marble in The Groove"

                           

                          unsolicited chatter

                          http://bkclay.blogspot.com/

                             How bad? My 40 miler took 11:02:00. I hit the wall the mile 8. Can not even remember how many times I got off course. 12 hour race 3/10/12 Yes! Cool .DW "So sad". 100 in 2012.

                             so slow learner, or glutton for punishment!! 

                               +1,000

                               

                               my next 100 is in July *sigh*

                               that takes a special kind of crazy, one I don't ever aspire to be.  I've read the horror stories of people who place in the event, I can't imagine what it's like for people like me.  Good luck!

                                I spent a couple of hours reading the links you gave me and comparing to the training programs within this chain and online and there really is two sides of the fence - long runs up to 30mi with every weekend being long, and the other side says doubles.  Doubles on paper are evil, these are 4 and 5 hour runs B2B.  Some people say they're required, other people say not to go near them for your first 50mi.

                                 

                                You know I trust you more than any website.

                                 

                                So here's what I'm going to do - I have Boston coming up and did a 16mi on Sat.  I had mapped out my own scheduled plan of 16, 15, 16, 15, 18, 15, 18, 15, 20, 15, 20, but as this is marathon #5 I figure I can consistently keep the miles on the higher end, rather than dropping them down to 15.  Coupled with a 10 or 12 on Sundays, that should be a good weekend to prepare me for Boston and be a good beginning for my training for the ultra (Oct).  I really need to get my base miles up anyway right now, I'm slacking off. 

                                 

                                As far as the ultra, I just want to finish, but I also don't want to hate every living soul as I cross the finish line either, so I'm trying to find a balance.  I'm going to do the long run up to 30 miles, but as minutes rather than miles, like suggested in this chain, and I'm just going to try to keep a 12 mile on Sundays, pushing it if I'm able to.  My injuries have been limited to tight tendons from inadequate stretching, but I'd like to keep it that way.  Basically I'm going to play it by ear, I know how well my body responds to being pushed (positively, after it forgives me), so if I can do a decent double I will, but if I'd rather die than run a step more, I'll turn back on the trail and run home.  My main priority will be a solid looong run once a week, the rest is a bonus to make the ultra suck a little less.

                                 

                                Does that sound relatively normal?  I just want to finish, and then I'll vow to never run again, ever. 

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