Oscar Pistorius (Blade Runner) Arrested (Read 548 times)

    The president should say he is going to ban everything. This economy would be humming along in no time.

     

    Yeah maybe so, but maybe actually we've gotten as far as we can on an economy based on fear, anxiety and endless reactive consumption.

     

    Anyways, I think this thread actually bears out McMurtry's analysis quite well. You had someone making a banal point about Pistorius's fascination with guns that then got interpreted pretty immediately as an argument to take away / restrict guns. Then basically the conversation morphed into an awesome viral marketing campaign where everyone is reminded about how guns are basic to their identity as Americans, complete with accounts of different types and the way they are used, their history, etc.


    Feeling the growl again

      I thought the most interesting point in the article was that for safety reasons, guns can't be made into a disposable consumption item like everything else in America -- they have to be made too well. So, consumers have to have other reasons to go out and buy new guns: namely, the fear that someone, somewhere wants to restrict X gun.

       

      In a weird way, threads like these are gun advertisements.

       

      The average run-of-the-mill gun was much higher quality 20-30 years ago than they are today.  Like everything else, increasing labor/taxes/healthcare have put huge pressures on companies to lower manufacturing costs.  However, unlike other industries, outsourcing to overseas is not feasible due to difficulties importing firearms (some are but it is very hard and expensive and you can't import everything you could legally make domestically).  So since they can't cut labor costs as easily, they have taken steps like Metal Injection Molded parts vs solid steel, pressed vs threaded barrels, plastic vs wood stocks, etc.  And since consumers have gotten used to buying cheaper everything, they clamor for these cheaper versions.  A casual hunter who only shoots <1 box of ammo a year likely won't care that he can't replace his barrel or that his bolt will start binding after a couple thousand rounds or that it shoots a 3 inch 100 yard group instead of <1; a serious shooter would never buy such a gun.

       

      Where consistent high quality used to be the norm, you now need to move to a premium product to get it.  In a way, we are fortunate that this is one of the few industries where you can still get the quality item if you are willing to pay for it.  In others it is just not available anymore as the high-quality manufacturers were completely eliminated.

       

      That said, few guns were ever a "disposable item" of really low quality.  When you have an explosion near your face or in your hand it is nice when the pressure vessel can be relied on to contain it.  Big grin

       

      I'm aware of a gun shop that has a framed picture of the President and a sign under it that says "Our #1 Salesman".  Yes, fear and hype have been quite good for sales in the industry going on 5 years now.  Given what has happened in NY, now CO, and soon CA, I don't see it abating any time soon.

       

      Oh and while those trained in firearms do indeed make serious mistakes in judgement when under stress, it seems inconceivable at this point that it was any sort of accident.

      "If you want to be a bad a$s, then do what a bad a$s does.  There's your pep talk for today.  Go Run." -- Slo_Hand

       


      Feeling the growl again

         

        It's an implausible argument, but also is hard to refute absolutely.

         

        If he did not have his legs on when he shot, I'm wondering how far off the ground the holes are in the door...if they are too high or the angle can be determined it may make it implausible that he did NOT have his legs on when he did it.

        "If you want to be a bad a$s, then do what a bad a$s does.  There's your pep talk for today.  Go Run." -- Slo_Hand

         

           

          If he did not have his legs on when he shot, I'm wondering how far off the ground the holes are in the door...if they are too high or the angle can be determined it may make it implausible that he did NOT have his legs on when he did it.

           

          I thought about that, too. We will see. I am not so sure that the courts in South Africa can be trusted....

             

             I am not so sure that the courts in South Africa can be trusted....

             

            This based on what Jeff?

             

            Of course the US courts return the correct verdict every time?

               

              This based on what Jeff?

               

              Of course the US courts return the correct verdict every time?

               

              Come on, dude. Christ in a MF racecar.


              Right on Hereford...

                 

                In a way, we are fortunate that this [the gun industry] is one of the few industries where you can still get the quality item if you are willing to pay for it.

                 

                I'm struggling to think of one industry where it's not possible to get the quality item if you're willing to pay for it. Can you elaborate?

                  I thought about that too.  There should be some ability to figure out what happened.  Maybe not why it happened, but what happened.

                   

                  Couple of things that I've thought about over the past 24+ hours....

                  1. Oscar wears prescription glasses (and likely contacts).... I wonder whether he had his glasses on or off.

                   

                  2.  "shot 3 times in the head" and "through a bathroom door".  After the 1st shot, wouldn't she have fallen down making it hard to guess where to shoot the 2nd shot?

                   

                  3. Is he also deaf?  Wouldn't an "identify yourself" type of message be made before a trigger pull if there was any potential that the person in there could have been a known person?  (In all honesty, I know first hand that things happen quickly and you're not alert when you're suddenly awaken by an intruder)

                   

                  4. Did he have his legs on and / or nearby?  How long does it take to slip on his legs after being startled awake?  Was the shot from a vulnerable position due to an inability to move?  The angle of the shots will likely be a key piece to the prosecution case (or defense case).

                   

                  2014 Goals:

                  #1: Do what I can do. <DOING>

                  #2: 365 Hours training <NOPE, INJURED>

                   

                     

                    Come on, dude. Christ in a MF racecar.

                     

                    Hopefully I've cleared this up via IM.

                     

                    Not meant as a dig at you Jeff.  Purely a "not everything in Africa is corrupt and wrong"- type statement from me.


                    Feeling the growl again

                       

                      I'm struggling to think of one industry where it's not possible to get the quality item if you're willing to pay for it. Can you elaborate?

                       

                      Lightbulbs, for one.  I really don't feel like going into an exhaustive list of my experiences.  YMMV.  Basically many items where manufacturing has gone to Asia and domestic production is close to nonexistent.  And yes, if you look hard enough you may be able to find some boutique maker who still delivers quality but that's hard to do for every little item.

                      "If you want to be a bad a$s, then do what a bad a$s does.  There's your pep talk for today.  Go Run." -- Slo_Hand

                       


                      No Talent Drips

                        ...and paperclips.

                         

                        You should go get the clap just so you can give it to her. --beef

                           

                          Hopefully I've cleared this up via IM.

                           

                          Not meant as a dig at you Jeff.  Purely a "not everything in Africa is corrupt and wrong"- type statement from me.

                           

                          's all good.

                          JimR


                             

                            Then why doesn't it work in the most gun restrictive environemnts of the US (DC and Chicago). I would counter that referecing common sense offers nothing other than an empty platitude based on their unsuccessful examples.

                             

                            I doubt the driving influence on restrictive weapons laws are arbitrary and that laws are causitive of violence, but rather the opposite in that the laws are built around the levels of violence.  In low violence regions laws can be pretty lax or pretty restrictive.  In high violence regions the options are less.  Couple this with the necessity of law enforcement.  Start arming every civilion with powerful and very capable weapons and you increase the risk to law enforcement personal and their ability to deal with the crimes that  are there.  It leads to a situation where citizens literally must fend for themselves.


                            Feeling the growl again

                               

                                It leads to a situation where citizens literally must fend for themselves.

                               

                              Response time for the sheriff to my house is 15 minutes.  I know this because when someone cut our phone line and attempted to break in this was how long it took them to show up.  Fortunately when would-be burglars realized the home was occupied they thought better of coming through the door. Since then the incidence of burglars actively targeting occupied homes in the area has increased...criminals are becoming more bold.

                               

                              Any significant crime will likely be over before police are on site.  So we already fend for ourselves here and neighbors look out for each other.  It is logical therefore to have capabilities in line with what we are likely to need to defend ourselves against.

                               

                              Police are good for enforcing laws, taking reports, and investigating to catch perpetrators after the fact.  It is the exception rather than the norm that they actually arrive in time stop someone in the act.  This is not the fault of law enforcement, but simple math that there are a lot of citizens and area to cover and they can't be everywhere.  SCOTUS has also established that they have no duty to protect you.  If you are more comfortable hiding and hoping the police get there in time that is your decision.  However if someone defeats my locks, alarm system, and angry dog and proceeds to threaten my family they are in for a very bad day.

                               

                              You make this repeated assumptions that when you give average citizens guns that these inanimate objects somehow conjure violent actions out of thin air.  What is your support for this?  There are many areas in this country where a large percentage of people own guns, and a large percentage carry them outside of the home.  Yet these same areas are quite safe.  MTA:  What is not safe is some idiot who would crawl down a hallway TOWARDS a noise and blindly shoot through a door at an unidentified noise, especially if they know there is someone else in the house with them.  Even if that is what occurred he is a complete idiot who should go do prison for such extreme wrecklessness.

                              "If you want to be a bad a$s, then do what a bad a$s does.  There's your pep talk for today.  Go Run." -- Slo_Hand

                               

                                 

                                  It leads to a situation where citizens literally must fend for themselves.

                                 

                                We could benefit from a little more of this.

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