How hard is it to know if an elite athlete is a woman? (Read 2187 times)

nextyearcubs


    If you showed that picture to someone who had no knowledge of the story what would they say?

     

     

    Maybe they could just show some pics to 100 idiots on the street and let them vote on it.

    5K 20:20 9/17/11 13.1 1:36:58 6/12/11 26.2 3:34:19 9/23/2012


    straw man


      Is that fair?

       No.

      It was kind of funny that the article says other women cyclist were very encouraging until Dumaresq started to beat them.

       

      My opinion:

      I think there has to be some kind of judging of maleness, and it has to be pretty strict. Transgender individuals would not pass for female in my judgment.

      Male has to be the "open" classification that all those who are not female fall into.

       

      The sports that women are ahead of men in are what... rhythmic gymnastics? diving?

      I don't really care if women compete with men or men compete with women in stuff like that.

      Seems like poker, billiards, darts, or chess. There's no need to separate the genders.

       

      Sanya Richards is ripped, but has breasts and hips like a woman. As far as I can tell, Caster Semenya does not. She/he has shoulders and hips like a man, without a hint of femininity. It's not a matter of hair and makeup with her/him.

      He who has the best time wins. Jerry


      straw man

        What I don't want to see is "womens" sports becoming a competition amongst the world's most athletic hermaphrodites.

        Apologies to all hermaphrodites I may have upset.

        He who has the best time wins. Jerry

          also...

           

          "We are more concerned for the person and not to make this as something that is humiliating," he said.

           

          well I think that ship has sailed at this point.  you can't say your team of experts don't know the answer and then say you don't want to humiliate someone. 

           

          and of course... the headline the next day...

           

          http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20090820/sp_nm/us_athletics_world_semenya

           

          jeez if you don't want to humiliate someone I could think of better ways then saying publicly at the world championships that your team of experts don't know yet if that person is a man or a woman. 

          In an infinite universe, the one thing sentient life cannot afford to have is a sense of proportion

          http://htwins.net/scale2/scale2.swf?bordercolor=white&fb_source=message

           

           

           


          Feeling the growl again

            If you showed that picture to someone who had no knowledge of the story what would they say?

             

             

            Maybe they could just show some pics to 100 idiots on the street and let them vote on it.

             

            They'd say "Hey, why is that dude running with all those women?"

             

            Congrats, you managed to take a relatively mature and amiable discussing and reduce it to name-calling by implying we're idiots.  Nobody inferred they should make the decision by taking our word for it.

            "If you want to be a bad a$s, then do what a bad a$s does.  There's your pep talk for today.  Go Run." -- Slo_Hand

             

               

              They'd say "Hey, why is that dude running with all those women?"

               

              Congrats, you managed to take a relatively mature and amiable discussing and reduce it to name-calling by implying we're idiots.  Nobody inferred they should make the decision by taking our word for it.

               

              what do you expect from Cub's fans? 


              jules2

                I can only add two points.

                 

                1 Where did Purdey get that photo of Mrs Jules

                 

                2 jpnairn says "Caster Semenya does not. She/he has shoulders and hips like a man, without a hint of femininity. It's not a matter of hair and makeup with her/him.   Have you heard the voice it sounds more male than Mike Tyson.

                 

                Whats that saying, if it looks like s**t, smells likes**t and tastes like s**t then it is s**t

                Old age is when you move from illegal to prescribed drugs.

                andyman68


                   

                  doesn't that seem like the only fair thiing to do?  why ruin the competition for people at an unfair disadvantage.  I assume 1,000's of women are training for track and field and would love to have that gold medal.  Should the 1,000's be denied to make the world more accepting of the one? 

                   

                  ethical debate insues... where's a philosopher to chime in? 

                   

                  I would guess if there are rules, they will be followed.  We don't know her situation and according to her father and grandmother she is a female. 

                   

                  For the Olympics, athletes who have undergone sex-change surgery are eligible for the Olympics if their new gender has been legally recognized and they have gone through a minimum two-year period of postoperative hormone therapy.  Other organizations and countries and different rules.

                  "Any idiot can run a marathon. It takes a special kind of idiot to run an ultramarathon." - Alan Cabelly

                    If you showed that picture to someone who had no knowledge of the story what would they say?

                     

                     

                    Maybe they could just show some pics to 100 idiots on the street and let them vote on it.

                     

                    I had no knowledge of anything, yet watching that last night on TV I remember thinking this "girl" had NO "figure" at all. The body looked so weird for a "girl".

                    Now I hear about it and it all makes sense. I think it's a "man".

                     

                    Marathon PR 3:25:23 http://26point2medals.com/metals.html


                    Right on Hereford...

                      What I don't want to see is "womens" sports becoming a competition amongst the world's most athletic hermaphrodites.

                      Apologies to all hermaphrodites I may have upset.

                       

                       

                      +1


                      straw man

                        This thread was bound to get there, but it is just taking too long.

                         

                        For my part, no, I would not hit that.

                        But I'm a happily married man.

                        I'm not judging others.

                        He who has the best time wins. Jerry


                        straw man

                           Yet I would have beaten all but the top few women in the world at any of the distances where I regularly competed.

                          Could've, would've should've. Too late now to regret not having the operation.

                          He who has the best time wins. Jerry


                          What a fantastic time!

                            Occasionally, babies are born with ambiguous genitalia and it can be difficult to figure out the correct gender (if there is one). 

                             We'd probably be surprised at the number born with ambiguous genitalia, or with extra genitatlia. 

                             

                            DRs make decisions based on what they think is best and usually perform surgery to align the "SEX" (male or female) with what they perceive the gender of the child will be.   However the sex and gender don't always lign up.  Then there are cases that the DRs don't even know about, where the extra genitalia aren't obvious (not exposed) and begin developing or causing problems later in life.  I have a female friend that this happened to and she was a teenager before they even became aware of the extras she had inside.  Ends up, that she was producing lots of testosterone (her body was reaching puberty) and she said she required surgery to remove the extra bits that she had. 

                             

                            So first, sex and Gender should not necessarily be thrown in together, (look at former Chastity Bono).

                             

                            As for me, I have no problem with them testing her to make sure she's not a cheat, but what will they do if she has an extra chromosome, or does or did have ambiguous genitalia, or is naturally producing extra testosterone, then what?  What if she was a he and became a she?

                             

                            Gail

                            INCG

                               

                               

                              As for me, I have no problem with them testing her to make sure she's not a cheat,

                               

                              I think it's pretty clear that if Semenya turns out to be a man, she will also be surprised. So, it wouldn't be right to call her a "cheat," even if she is disqualified.


                              What a fantastic time!

                                There are XX-dudes and XY-dudettes (people who exhibit physical traits of one gender, but who have chromosomes that don't fit the XX-female and XY-male definitions).

                                 

                                 

                                 And then there are those that despite their looks don't identify with their visual gender appearance.  Hence the growing population of Transsexuals.  Many of them fall into what you describe, but then there are many who don't.

                                 

                                Gail

                                INCG