Lance Armstrong appears finally to have run out of rope. (Read 2696 times)

    Surprised? No. I don't believe I even implied that I was surprised, just that somebody chose to take the opportunity to attack when all I was doing was being honest. I harbor no illusions that what I did "then" was ethical...which is precisely why I chose to get out when I did. My candor in the matter does come from personal experience with athletes that included swimmers, team sports and whatnot. My approach to the whole issue is somewhat "libertarian" and who am I to judge what a person wants to do? I make every effort not to judge others for their behavior, and I used to view the world as very "black or white" while discounting situational ethics. What I find sad is that the media exploits human nature to a great degree. There's a whole science to crafting what the public takes in as "news" to obtain a goal(s). I've even fallen victim to it. There was even a time and place when I used to view Fox News as "gospel"...Yes I admit it.

     

    . . .  if you disagree with the spaniel, he will inevitably call you a moron or ill-informed.   just an unfortunate fact of life on RunningAhead

     

    the USADA's dogged pursuit of Lance was highly political and personal.  dude beat cancer and went up the mountain real fast.

     

    The Washington Post's Sally Jenkins has written a few very thoughtful articles about Lance.  When questioned about her defense of Lance, she explained:   “I don’t think I’m naive about doping, quite the opposite. I simply don’t feel about it the way some people want me to, and I think that’s the source of their rage. I don’t see doping as a black and white issue; I see it as an extremely complicated moral, judicial, and philosophical one. And I arrived at those conclusions quite independent of Lance.  I don’t condone what Lance did — I simply forgive it.”

     

    . . . and i'm sure that means she's a moron too.

       

      . . .  if you disagree with the spaniel, he will inevitably call you a moron or ill-informed.   just an unfortunate fact of life on RunningAhead

       

      Enough already. Don't start that crap again.

         

        Enough already. Don't start that crap again.

         

        please accept the possibility that people can simply disagree without resorting to insults.

          Umm.. shes LAs biographer.. who.. shockingly supports PED use. She tagged along with him to get her slice of the pie. So, congratulations to her for finding it in her heart to "forgive".

           

           

          . . . and i'm sure that means she's a moron too.

           

          Just decide what you want out of this story. It is possible for one person to have heroic qualities and perform atrocious acts. Its not the evil media that makes your decisions. Just like everybody else LA is a complicaed guy. I think we're all grown up enough to figure that out.

          All about that bass


          Feeling the growl again

             

            . . .  if you disagree with the spaniel, he will inevitably call you a moron or ill-informed.  

             

            Nah, that's reserved explicitly for you.  Smile

            "If you want to be a bad a$s, then do what a bad a$s does.  There's your pep talk for today.  Go Run." -- Slo_Hand

             

            Better I Leave


              Nah, that's reserved explicitly for you.  Smile

               

              So what would be the "stronger language" that you have reserved for me then? You've "piqued" my interest now. I'm a big boy...I can handle it and I assure you, I will nor retort...I'm merely interested.

              zonykel


                having watched the documentary "bigger, stronger, faster", and reading some interviews of Conte (he was part of Balco), I'm of the opinion that the vast majority of professional athletes use PEDs.

                 

                Bonds and Armstrong have received a lot of attention. But that attention makes it look like they are in the minority. quite frankly, the spectators seem to be quite content with the status quo. If few people pop positive, that must mean most professionals are clean, right?  The problem is that drug testing lags behind compared to the designer drugs.

                 

                recently, there have been a few positive drug tests in boxing. People like Juan Manuel Marquez have the most muscular body they've ever had (and he's 39 now) and all of a sudden he has one-punch knockout power. It makes no sense. TheN again, people like Mayweather were accusing Pacquiao of using PEDs. The cynics simply said that Marquez just leveled the playing field of chemical warfare.

                  Nah, that's reserved explicitly for you.  Smile

                  ahh yes, stupid me.  Black eye

                    Umm.. shes LAs biographer.. who.. shockingly supports PED use. She tagged along with him to get her slice of the pie. So, congratulations to her for finding it in her heart to "forgive".

                     

                    I don't think that's fair.  As the Post's ombudsman explained in a story about the criticisms of her defense of Lance:  "She thinks that doping investigations are unfairly prosecutorial, that performance-enhancing drugs aren’t as cut and dried an issue as is typically portrayed, and that the punishments are less about the athletes and more about politics."  http://articles.washingtonpost.com/2012-12-21/opinions/35950282_1_lance-armstrong-columns-armstrong-books  She is not alone.  


                    No more marathons

                       

                      I don't think that's fair.  As the Post's ombudsman explained in a story about the criticisms of her defense of Lance:  "She thinks that doping investigations are unfairly prosecutorial, that performance-enhancing drugs aren’t as cut and dried an issue as is typically portrayed, and that the punishments are less about the athletes and more about politics."  http://articles.washingtonpost.com/2012-12-21/opinions/35950282_1_lance-armstrong-columns-armstrong-books  She is not alone.  

                       

                      That's sounds like pure rationalization.  It is cut and dried.  You either play by the rules or you don't.  If you don't like the rules either stop playing the game or work within the system to change them.  As much as I wanted to support LA I now must put him in the same boat with Rosie Ruiz.  They both "won" by cheating - just in different ways.

                      jimmyb


                        " I don’t condone what Lance did — I simply forgive it." --Sally Jenkins

                         

                        I'm with Jenkins. For her its a personal issue; does she want to walk around on a pedestal of pureness constantly shunning Armstrong in her mind, taking a holier than thou stance? Pasting him with a scarlett PED, and keeping him in stocks in the downtown square in her mind. This takes energy. She chose to forgive him, which means she let go of the Lance loop in her head.

                         

                        Perhaps she asked herself the questions "did I ever cheat, even just once, in my life? And if so, why?"

                        Then put down her bag of stones and left the stoning area in her mind.

                         

                        This doesn't mean she condones or encourages the use of PED's or cheating. It is possible for a human being to live in a state of forgiveness (which is always an issue of personal mental freedom) and still call for enforcement of laws of the land and rules in games. You can forgive someone and still choose not to hang out with him. Freedom.

                         

                        Perhaps, the overall issue of PED use is a little morre complicated than the simple act of breaking a rule. Is it?

                        Log    PRs

                          " I don’t condone what Lance did — I simply forgive it." --Sally Jenkins

                           

                          I'm with Jenkins. For her its a personal issue; does she want to walk around on a pedestal of pureness constantly shunning Armstrong in her mind, taking a holier than thou stance? Pasting him with a scarlett PED, and keeping him in stocks in the downtown square in her mind. This takes energy. She chose to forgive him, which means she let go of the Lance loop in her head.

                           

                          Perhaps she asked herself the questions "did I ever cheat, even just once, in my life? And if so, why?"

                          Then put down her bag of stones and left the stoning area in her mind.

                           

                          This doesn't mean she condones or encourages the use of PED's or cheating. It is possible for a human being to live in a state of forgiveness (which is always an issue of personal mental freedom) and still call for enforcement of laws of the land and rules in games. You can forgive someone and still choose not to hang out with him. Freedom.

                           

                          Perhaps, the overall issue of PED use is a little morre complicated than the simple act of breaking a rule. Is it?

                          Good post.

                            That is a good post, jimmyb, BUT

                             

                            I'm not sure that judging Lance requires occupying a place of moral purity, and I think that we can still condemn his actions and even judge him to be ethically flawed while forgiving him (in fact, I think one is the precondition of the other).

                             

                            Also, I know the reason that I am not a fan of Lance Armstrong has little to do with the fact that he used PEDs. I don't like that he distributed them to teammates, pressured them to use, and used his enormous power and influence to aggressively bully anyone who even suggested that he used. I think I can hold this opinion without presuming that I am holier than others or whatnot.

                               I don't like that he distributed them to teammates, pressured them to use, and used his enormous power and influence to aggressively bully anyone who even suggested that he used.

                               

                              This.

                               

                              I could forgive his use of PEDs given the era during which he rode and the pressure that existed. But he was not a passive participant in that culture and it's really hard to get past the way he treated a lot of people who were totally innocent, only found out by accident that he was using and--oftentimes under threat of perjuring themselves--did nothing more than tell the truth. His treatment of people like Emma O'Reilly, Betsy Andreau and others is tough to let slide.

                               

                              It will be interesting to see what, if anything, he has to say on that once he comes "clean."

                              Runners run.

                                 

                                This.

                                 

                                I could forgive his use of PEDs given the era during which he rode and the pressure that existed. But he was not a passive participant in that culture and it's really hard to get past the way he treated a lot of people who were totally innocent, only found out by accident that he was using and, oftentimes under threat of perjuring themselves, did nothing more than tell the truth. His treatment of people like Emma O'Reilly, Betsy Andreau and others is tough to let slide.

                                 

                                It will be interesting to see what, if anything, he has to say on that now that once he comes "clean."

                                 

                                I was thinking about that, too. The problem is if he is overspecific in his apologies,  it could be used against him in a defamation lawsuit.

                                "If you have the fire, run..." -John Climacus